6 ms·

> …but that's the only problem with it. I doubt it. In your first post, you said you have a work losing crash once a year on your Mac. Sounds like a problem to

> …but that's the only problem with it. I doubt it. In your first post, you said you have a work losing crash once a year on your Mac. Sounds like a problem to me. (That’s never happened to me once on my Linux or Windows desktops.) You also had to build another machine just so you can play games and try out Linux. That you can’t just play games under macOS sounds like a problem too. I’m also sure that you’ve had problems just like everybody else has had with Macs, from updates that break software and services that you’ve installed. My Macs have been broken numerous times by this bullshit whereas my Linux and Windows machines just keep trucking along like they’re supposed to.

handrous 5y ago
> I doubt it. In your first post, you said you have a work losing crash once a year on your Mac. Sounds like a problem to me. (That’s never happened to me once on my Linux or Windows desktops.) I didn't write that. Quoting myself: > I doubt I have a work-losing crash on my Macs more than once a year, if that. I was being conservative in my claims but did not write that I see a crash a year. I'm pretty sure I could count the total crashes I've seen in macOS/OSX on a half-dozen machines (work and personal) in ~10 years I've been using it, on one hand without using all the fingers. Three, maybe? Two? It's extremely uncommon. I don't remember when the last time was. It's 100% for-sure under once a year. Meanwhile, how... have you never, ever had that happen on a Linux or Windows desktop? X has never crashed? Windows has never crashed? How long have you been using them? I'd say I've had hundreds of crashes of the OS or of the GUI desktop system (may as well be the same thing, on a desktop machine) in ~26 years of using Windows and ~21 years of Linux, across perhaps 40 desktops and laptops, personal and work-provided. Granted they're way less common now on Windows than they used to be, especially pre-WinXP (about the same on Linux as they've always been, though). > You also had to build another machine just so you can play games and try out Linux. That you can’t just play games under macOS sounds like a problem too. I didn't need to do it to try out Linux. I was trying to cheap out and use the same machine for gaming and for work, ideally without dual-booting, so Windows wasn't an option (for the work part, that is). I should have just bitten the bullet and shelled out for another Mac to begin with, but I thought I'd give Linux (yet) another shot. I was a mostly-Linux user for most desktop/laptop/workstation purposes (except gaming) for most of the 2000-2010 decade, so it's not unfamiliar territory for me. > I’m also sure that you’ve had problems just like everybody else has had with Macs, from updates that break software and services that you’ve installed. My Macs have been broken numerous times by this bullshit whereas my Linux and Windows machines just keep trucking along like they’re supposed to. I've had to run a trivially-googlable one-off command to fix homebrew permissions a couple times after OS upgrades. I think it broke badly on an update, requiring more intervention, exactly once, years ago. But the system was still fine, only Homebrew had trouble, and in the worst case it's really easy to just blow it (homebrew, that is) away and start over (which IIRC I've never had to resort to, though). Dropping 32-bit support sucked. Macs were finally kinda, sorta, almost usable as gaming machines. Not everything was available, but the library had grown large enough that there was tons to play. All wiped out at once. Oh well, all my Macs have always had embedded graphics so I couldn't play anything fancier than Kerbal Space Program or Minecraft or most Unity-engine games, anyway, so it's not like I wasn't still going to need a separate box for that if I really wanted to scratch the PC gaming itch. Macs do have problems (ugh, those first-gen butterfly keyboards...) but I've yet to see them be bad enough that I wouldn't still be making things a lot harder on myself by going back to Linux for work of any sort, and if I'm just gaming on something it may as well run Windows (which is unsuitable for any work I do or want to do, for a ton of reasons).
- wayneftw 5y ago
  > ...have you never, ever had that happen on a Linux or Windows desktop? I've been using Windows since before Windows 3 and Linux since Red Hat 4 or 5. I've had plenty of crashes, but work-losing crashes? I sincerely can't remember a time where I've lost much work, if any, on my workstations. In the last decade, I've hardly had any crashes at all in Windows. Maybe one or two. In the last 3 years of running Manjaro Linux on 3 different workstations though, I can honestly say that I haven't had one crash. I've had power outages, minor bugs (once or twice) and some problems that I've caused myself, but zero operating system crashes. I've tried other desktop distros many times before this, but this is the first one that never crashed on me. Last time I setup a Xubuntu desktop, an update made it unbootable within 2 weeks. So if you're not using a distro based on Arch yet - I can understand your frustration. I've easily had way, way more problems, crashes, limitations and annoyances with macOS in the past decade than I have in the past 3 years of Manjaro Linux or Windows. Especially after each major macOS update. Software stops working and even some of my hardware never worked on it. I have Macs that refuse to recognize certain common items like USB keyboards, mice and displays. > I didn't need to do it to try out Linux. I was trying to cheap out and use the same machine for gaming and for work, ideally without dual-booting, so Windows wasn't an option (for the work part, that is). So, what I'm hearing is that you consider Macs to be overpriced, non-gaming machines that crash maybe every other year. Otherwise you would have just used your existing Mac or bought a new one to solve your problems. Alright well, I can admit that all three of the major desktop systems have issues. But Macs have just the worst types of issues that can't or won't be fixed because Apple will pull the rug out from you at any minute if you try to stray from their plan for further enslaving you. Anyway, I don't see why anyone has to "choose" between one or the other. It's not expensive to have more than one computer. I have some Windows boxes for entertainment. I have some Linux machines for work and I have some Macs for iOS/Mac things. IMO if you can't keep Windows running, you're doing something wrong and if you can't keep Linux running you're either not picking compatible hardware or you're running the wrong distro. Maybe give Manjaro a whirl and if you do, don't try and do things the way you're used to in some other distro - find out the Manjaro way of doing things first (and use their guis to do things, especially the Add/Remove Software gui - and restart when it says to) and the Arch way of doing things second and after that you can apply your existing Linux/bash/whatever knowledge.

handrous 5y ago

> I doubt it. In your first post, you said you have a work losing crash once a year on your Mac. Sounds like a problem to me. (That’s never happened to me once on my Linux or Windows desktops.) I didn't write that. Quoting myself: > I doubt I have a work-losing crash on my Macs more than once a year, if that. I was being conservative in my claims but did not write that I see a crash a year. I'm pretty sure I could count the total crashes I've seen in macOS/OSX on a half-dozen machines (work and personal) in ~10 years I've been using it, on one hand without using all the fingers. Three, maybe? Two? It's extremely uncommon. I don't remember when the last time was. It's 100% for-sure under once a year. Meanwhile, how... have you never, ever had that happen on a Linux or Windows desktop? X has never crashed? Windows has never crashed? How long have you been using them? I'd say I've had hundreds of crashes of the OS or of the GUI desktop system (may as well be the same thing, on a desktop machine) in ~26 years of using Windows and ~21 years of Linux, across perhaps 40 desktops and laptops, personal and work-provided. Granted they're way less common now on Windows than they used to be, especially pre-WinXP (about the same on Linux as they've always been, though). > You also had to build another machine just so you can play games and try out Linux. That you can’t just play games under macOS sounds like a problem too. I didn't need to do it to try out Linux. I was trying to cheap out and use the same machine for gaming and for work, ideally without dual-booting, so Windows wasn't an option (for the work part, that is). I should have just bitten the bullet and shelled out for another Mac to begin with, but I thought I'd give Linux (yet) another shot. I was a mostly-Linux user for most desktop/laptop/workstation purposes (except gaming) for most of the 2000-2010 decade, so it's not unfamiliar territory for me. > I’m also sure that you’ve had problems just like everybody else has had with Macs, from updates that break software and services that you’ve installed. My Macs have been broken numerous times by this bullshit whereas my Linux and Windows machines just keep trucking along like they’re supposed to. I've had to run a trivially-googlable one-off command to fix homebrew permissions a couple times after OS upgrades. I think it broke badly on an update, requiring more intervention, exactly once, years ago. But the system was still fine, only Homebrew had trouble, and in the worst case it's really easy to just blow it (homebrew, that is) away and start over (which IIRC I've never had to resort to, though). Dropping 32-bit support sucked. Macs were finally kinda, sorta, almost usable as gaming machines. Not everything was available, but the library had grown large enough that there was tons to play. All wiped out at once. Oh well, all my Macs have always had embedded graphics so I couldn't play anything fancier than Kerbal Space Program or Minecraft or most Unity-engine games, anyway, so it's not like I wasn't still going to need a separate box for that if I really wanted to scratch the PC gaming itch. Macs do have problems (ugh, those first-gen butterfly keyboards...) but I've yet to see them be bad enough that I wouldn't still be making things a lot harder on myself by going back to Linux for work of any sort, and if I'm just gaming on something it may as well run Windows (which is unsuitable for any work I do or want to do, for a ton of reasons).

wayneftw 5y ago
> ...have you never, ever had that happen on a Linux or Windows desktop? I've been using Windows since before Windows 3 and Linux since Red Hat 4 or 5. I've had plenty of crashes, but work-losing crashes? I sincerely can't remember a time where I've lost much work, if any, on my workstations. In the last decade, I've hardly had any crashes at all in Windows. Maybe one or two. In the last 3 years of running Manjaro Linux on 3 different workstations though, I can honestly say that I haven't had one crash. I've had power outages, minor bugs (once or twice) and some problems that I've caused myself, but zero operating system crashes. I've tried other desktop distros many times before this, but this is the first one that never crashed on me. Last time I setup a Xubuntu desktop, an update made it unbootable within 2 weeks. So if you're not using a distro based on Arch yet - I can understand your frustration. I've easily had way, way more problems, crashes, limitations and annoyances with macOS in the past decade than I have in the past 3 years of Manjaro Linux or Windows. Especially after each major macOS update. Software stops working and even some of my hardware never worked on it. I have Macs that refuse to recognize certain common items like USB keyboards, mice and displays. > I didn't need to do it to try out Linux. I was trying to cheap out and use the same machine for gaming and for work, ideally without dual-booting, so Windows wasn't an option (for the work part, that is). So, what I'm hearing is that you consider Macs to be overpriced, non-gaming machines that crash maybe every other year. Otherwise you would have just used your existing Mac or bought a new one to solve your problems. Alright well, I can admit that all three of the major desktop systems have issues. But Macs have just the worst types of issues that can't or won't be fixed because Apple will pull the rug out from you at any minute if you try to stray from their plan for further enslaving you. Anyway, I don't see why anyone has to "choose" between one or the other. It's not expensive to have more than one computer. I have some Windows boxes for entertainment. I have some Linux machines for work and I have some Macs for iOS/Mac things. IMO if you can't keep Windows running, you're doing something wrong and if you can't keep Linux running you're either not picking compatible hardware or you're running the wrong distro. Maybe give Manjaro a whirl and if you do, don't try and do things the way you're used to in some other distro - find out the Manjaro way of doing things first (and use their guis to do things, especially the Add/Remove Software gui - and restart when it says to) and the Arch way of doing things second and after that you can apply your existing Linux/bash/whatever knowledge.