7 ms·

What I miss more than anything else is having an attention span. Years of abusing social media has left my brain pinballing all over the place. I am a collectio

by pugets 5y ago

What I miss more than anything else is having an attention span. Years of abusing social media has left my brain pinballing all over the place. I am a collection of unfinished thoughts. Even as I write this, I can feel my mind needing to latch onto something new.

zz865 5y ago
Me too, congrats on completing that second sentence. :)
robohoe 5y ago
This one is a tough one and I can relate. I haven't been able to finish a book or work on any labs or FOSS work in years now. I reach for the phone even when I get a moment of downtime. The addiction is strong and now I as learn to be more mindful I realize how common place it is for everyone.
collinvandyck76 5y ago
I recently quit all social media. There was a bit of withdrawal but I can confirm that my attention span has started coming back.
- Otek 5y ago
  It’s easy to quit, but how did you manage to fill empty time that you’ve suddenly gotten?
  - collinvandyck76 5y ago
    I'm learning how to play the banjo.
  - tmjwid 5y ago
    For me, the idea of needing to fill the time is one of the symptoms of the problem. Empty time is perfectly fine.
- collaborative 5y ago
  Apologies for asking the obvious, but then why are you here? :-P
  - collinvandyck76 5y ago
    Haha good question. I wouldn't consider HN social media, as it's more nuanced discussion around topics, although the lines are somewhat blurry. I think of social media more like Twitter and Facebook.
    - qwertox 5y ago
      Do you visit Reddit?
      - anthk 5y ago
        I switched from visiting Reddit from the web/phone client to a Gopher proxy with Lynx (in order to view the submitted sites in the posts): gopher://gopherddit.com Also, my NNTP list: alt.ascii-art alt.folklore.computers alt.os.linux.slackware alt.sys.pdp10 comp.infosystems.gopher comp.lang.forth comp.lang.perl comp.lang.perl.announce comp.lang.perl.faq comp.lang.perl.misc comp.lang.perl.moderated comp.lang.perl.modules comp.lang.perl.tk comp.lang.postscript comp.misc comp.unix.programmer comp.unix.shell fj.life.in-japan rec.arts.int-fiction rec.radio.amateur.dx rec.radio.amateur.moderated rec.radio.amateur.space rec.radio.shortwave Sometimes I interact over NNTP on https://synchro.net https://synchro.net (they have a web/BBS interface too). As the pace is much slower, I can comment once or twice a week and everything is still good. Finally, Gopher and Gemini sites. A really slow pace, no ads, no likes, no bullshit.
        Celebros 5y ago
        Wow haven’t thought about Gopher in forever. I still prefer to interact with the command line instead of the GUI for most things. I’ll have to give that a try.
        q-base 5y ago
Otek 5y ago
Yeah, mindfulness is promoted as a cure for that but I’m not sure. Right now I’m pretty mindful in random daily occasions but it just gives me more depression and overthinking. When I’m turning that off for some days I’m… more happy? But still miserable. I don’t know what to do
bovermyer 5y ago
There's something to be said for leaving your phone at home, driving to a park, and just walking around for a few hours.
random_kris 5y ago
What to do to fix this?
- huge87 5y ago
  In general, you can train attention like it's a skill or exercise you practice. Stuff like mindfulness meditation is training of attention. If we're talking about how social media shortens our attention span then it may be prudent to reduce usage.
- aalam 5y ago
  I got mileage out of replacing habits of checking social media with reading longer-form articles. I picked up the idea from books on habits (Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg, Atomic Habits by James Clear). To replace a habit, it helps to understand the prompt that causes it. When I feel tired, or worried about something, I found myself opening social media apps. Behaviour-wise, following the prompt, I've replaced checking Reddit with checking Hacker News (similar enough to work, without getting too engaged with the content). I've also replaced Twitter with curated Tweetdeck streams, and Facebook for the news feed with newspaper apps (a free one like AP could work, though I pay for newspaper subscriptions). Cognitive-wise, in terms of thoughts, I also recognize that social media is designed to hijack your attention and maximize engagement, so I've chosen to frame it as a negative (versus a neutral) habit for my own personal goals. In short, replacing the habits with similar ones with better consequences, and understanding why I'm doing this has helped.
  - wrycoder 5y ago
    It’s like an ear worm. The fix is more music, but of a different type.
  - random_kris 5y ago
    Nice. I am battling this problem the same way as you. I replaced reddit/fb with Hackernews / curated Twitter but I think it is slowly getting too toxic as well..
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
As a parent, I've been watching this play out in real time among other peoples' children. Most parents I know are deliberate about limiting screen time and ensuring their children don't substitute screen time for other activities. It's actually not that difficult to do so as kids are really good at finding entertainment in their environment even without electronics. However, some parents give their kids all the tablet, TV, and phone time they want. As they grow up I can see them failing to learn how to play with others their own age because they'd rather reach for a screen than make an effort to do something. They can be frighteningly grumpy when separated from their electronic devices and can even throw tantrums until their parents cave in and give them more screen time. FWIW, I've also watched parents reverse this trend by slowing weaning their kids off of screen time and substituting other entertaining activities. It doesn't take a whole lot to nudge people in the right direction, but putting that phone down and doing literally anything other than stare at a screen can be a difficult first step to take.
- woko 5y ago
  I'd argue that I've been watching this play out in real time among other... parents. It is actually sad when you go outside and start noticing that people are glued to their phone screens, including parents who would rather look at their smartphones rather than their kids. I can tell you that little kids notice that they lost the attention war to their parents' smartphones.
  - deckard1 5y ago
    I've made this argument before, but in relation to dating. You'll never be more interesting than a smartphone. It's virtually impossible. You're a single human, and that device contains the entire world. If you meet a woman, she has her friends on there. She has her instagram account. Snapchat, TikTok, whatever. You are instantly contrasted against the entire world (against only the highlight reel) and you don't match up. And you never will. You're dull and uninteresting. Just wait until you find yourself swiping on Tinder while your date is in the restroom. No one is immune. The same is true for children. I'll never be as interesting at a Twitch stream or a flashy YouTube channel. Because no one is "on" at all times. Even at my most interesting, I'm not edited down. I'm glad to have experienced life before the internet and cell phones. We'll never be back to that point and we may not be fully aware of what was lost for some time yet.
theyellowkid 5y ago
> What I miss more than anything else is having an attention span. I need to look for more examples of the art of the future. The one paragraph short story (4chan greentexts I guess), the 20 second hit single.
nanidin 5y ago
I’ve been suffering the same thing over the last few months. A helpful technique for me has been to swap out my smart watch for a dumb watch, and to put my phone in a drawer unless I intend to use it. I also heavily limited the types of things Facebook will send push notifications for. It used to be that if I got a notification, it was because one of my friends actually interacted with me in some way. Now I get a bunch of junk notifications that I feel are designed to pull me into the app and not really inform me of anything, to get me back to scrolling a feed. Like I’ll get a notification that someone I don’t know made a post in a group I’ve been in for years without ever getting a similar notification in the previous years. So I basically turned off everything that doesn't involve my actual friends doing something relevant to me.
- ghaff 5y ago
  >I also heavily limited the types of things Facebook will send push notifications for. That answer for me would be everything. (Except messenger which basically one friend uses for me because of where she lives.)
- bspammer 5y ago
  It’s funny because for me a smart watch is the perfect compromise - you still get a bunch of the useful features of a smartphone like navigation, timers, a calculator, music, Apple Pay, etc but with none of the really damaging web-based attention black holes. I often go out with only my watch, and it feels so freeing to have only the good side of technology accessible. I am very strict with the notification settings, otherwise the constant buzzing on the wrist would be worse than a phone.
luxurytent 5y ago
As a parent I've flip flopped between leaving my phone in the bed room / office during the day to flipping through TikTok while my kids crawl over me because my brain is so fried and all it wants is some dopamine hits to help get through that day. Thankfully, crawling out of the first year of our second child and sleep, routine, etc. is all getting easier (not being in COVID lockdown helps too) and I'm finding it more common for myself to leave my phone in the bedroom while I enjoy my day with the kids. I've also realized that the sole reason I bring my phone to the kid's park is in case I need to contact my wife, or vice versa. I've been tempted to get a smart watch w/ cellular just so I have less bulk to carry around, but a "dumb" phone may be just as sufficient ...
LeftHandPath 5y ago
I've started weening myself off of everything that's instant-gratification. No reddit, no imgur, no short-format news stories or list articles. A week ago I drove 9 hours for a camping trip and spent several days without my phone and smart-watch. For several months I've made a point to walk at least an hour a day (to go about 5 miles) without looking at my phone -- but I still wear my watch to track the distance. I still feel like I have to have some form of audio going in the background - maybe something educational, maybe ASMR - while I'm browsing hacker news. If I play a game, I still choose one without a narrative so that I can listen to a podcast while I play. I'm not sure that any of these habits are beneficial. I think Nicholas Carr had a great point in The Shallows (2010) [1] -- our brains have a lot of plasticity, even into late adulthood. The way we use the internet probably has a much larger impact on the way we think than we are currently willing to acknowledge. There is a healthy way to integrate electronics into our daily lives, but I don't think many of us have found it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shallows_(book) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shallows_(book)
baliex 5y ago
> What I miss more than anythi And then I collapsed your comment. It’s worse than I thought.
bigpeopleareold 5y ago
Just makes me think: When I get to this point (rarely if ever though with social media), I feel guilty. I possibly spend too much time on the computer, but I give myself these options if I am going to continue to use it (during spare time): learn a new thing related to my interests, write toy programs, or put it away and spend time with my wife, all if not at work.
agumonkey 5y ago
I try to walk phoneless more and more just to zone out entirely. Free mind holidays, no login required

by pugets 5y ago

zz865 5y ago

Me too, congrats on completing that second sentence. :)

robohoe 5y ago

This one is a tough one and I can relate. I haven't been able to finish a book or work on any labs or FOSS work in years now. I reach for the phone even when I get a moment of downtime. The addiction is strong and now I as learn to be more mindful I realize how common place it is for everyone.

collinvandyck76 5y ago

I recently quit all social media. There was a bit of withdrawal but I can confirm that my attention span has started coming back.

Otek 5y ago
It’s easy to quit, but how did you manage to fill empty time that you’ve suddenly gotten?
- collinvandyck76 5y ago
  I'm learning how to play the banjo.
- tmjwid 5y ago
  For me, the idea of needing to fill the time is one of the symptoms of the problem. Empty time is perfectly fine.
collaborative 5y ago
Apologies for asking the obvious, but then why are you here? :-P
- collinvandyck76 5y ago
  Haha good question. I wouldn't consider HN social media, as it's more nuanced discussion around topics, although the lines are somewhat blurry. I think of social media more like Twitter and Facebook.
  - qwertox 5y ago
    Do you visit Reddit?
    - anthk 5y ago
      I switched from visiting Reddit from the web/phone client to a Gopher proxy with Lynx (in order to view the submitted sites in the posts): gopher://gopherddit.com Also, my NNTP list: alt.ascii-art alt.folklore.computers alt.os.linux.slackware alt.sys.pdp10 comp.infosystems.gopher comp.lang.forth comp.lang.perl comp.lang.perl.announce comp.lang.perl.faq comp.lang.perl.misc comp.lang.perl.moderated comp.lang.perl.modules comp.lang.perl.tk comp.lang.postscript comp.misc comp.unix.programmer comp.unix.shell fj.life.in-japan rec.arts.int-fiction rec.radio.amateur.dx rec.radio.amateur.moderated rec.radio.amateur.space rec.radio.shortwave Sometimes I interact over NNTP on https://synchro.net https://synchro.net (they have a web/BBS interface too). As the pace is much slower, I can comment once or twice a week and everything is still good. Finally, Gopher and Gemini sites. A really slow pace, no ads, no likes, no bullshit.
      - Celebros 5y ago
        Wow haven’t thought about Gopher in forever. I still prefer to interact with the command line instead of the GUI for most things. I’ll have to give that a try.
      - q-base 5y ago

Otek 5y ago

Yeah, mindfulness is promoted as a cure for that but I’m not sure. Right now I’m pretty mindful in random daily occasions but it just gives me more depression and overthinking. When I’m turning that off for some days I’m… more happy? But still miserable. I don’t know what to do

bovermyer 5y ago

There's something to be said for leaving your phone at home, driving to a park, and just walking around for a few hours.

random_kris 5y ago

What to do to fix this?

huge87 5y ago
In general, you can train attention like it's a skill or exercise you practice. Stuff like mindfulness meditation is training of attention. If we're talking about how social media shortens our attention span then it may be prudent to reduce usage.
aalam 5y ago
I got mileage out of replacing habits of checking social media with reading longer-form articles. I picked up the idea from books on habits (Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg, Atomic Habits by James Clear). To replace a habit, it helps to understand the prompt that causes it. When I feel tired, or worried about something, I found myself opening social media apps. Behaviour-wise, following the prompt, I've replaced checking Reddit with checking Hacker News (similar enough to work, without getting too engaged with the content). I've also replaced Twitter with curated Tweetdeck streams, and Facebook for the news feed with newspaper apps (a free one like AP could work, though I pay for newspaper subscriptions). Cognitive-wise, in terms of thoughts, I also recognize that social media is designed to hijack your attention and maximize engagement, so I've chosen to frame it as a negative (versus a neutral) habit for my own personal goals. In short, replacing the habits with similar ones with better consequences, and understanding why I'm doing this has helped.
- wrycoder 5y ago
  It’s like an ear worm. The fix is more music, but of a different type.
- random_kris 5y ago
  Nice. I am battling this problem the same way as you. I replaced reddit/fb with Hackernews / curated Twitter but I think it is slowly getting too toxic as well..

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

As a parent, I've been watching this play out in real time among other peoples' children. Most parents I know are deliberate about limiting screen time and ensuring their children don't substitute screen time for other activities. It's actually not that difficult to do so as kids are really good at finding entertainment in their environment even without electronics. However, some parents give their kids all the tablet, TV, and phone time they want. As they grow up I can see them failing to learn how to play with others their own age because they'd rather reach for a screen than make an effort to do something. They can be frighteningly grumpy when separated from their electronic devices and can even throw tantrums until their parents cave in and give them more screen time. FWIW, I've also watched parents reverse this trend by slowing weaning their kids off of screen time and substituting other entertaining activities. It doesn't take a whole lot to nudge people in the right direction, but putting that phone down and doing literally anything other than stare at a screen can be a difficult first step to take.

woko 5y ago
I'd argue that I've been watching this play out in real time among other... parents. It is actually sad when you go outside and start noticing that people are glued to their phone screens, including parents who would rather look at their smartphones rather than their kids. I can tell you that little kids notice that they lost the attention war to their parents' smartphones.
- deckard1 5y ago
  I've made this argument before, but in relation to dating. You'll never be more interesting than a smartphone. It's virtually impossible. You're a single human, and that device contains the entire world. If you meet a woman, she has her friends on there. She has her instagram account. Snapchat, TikTok, whatever. You are instantly contrasted against the entire world (against only the highlight reel) and you don't match up. And you never will. You're dull and uninteresting. Just wait until you find yourself swiping on Tinder while your date is in the restroom. No one is immune. The same is true for children. I'll never be as interesting at a Twitch stream or a flashy YouTube channel. Because no one is "on" at all times. Even at my most interesting, I'm not edited down. I'm glad to have experienced life before the internet and cell phones. We'll never be back to that point and we may not be fully aware of what was lost for some time yet.

theyellowkid 5y ago

> What I miss more than anything else is having an attention span. I need to look for more examples of the art of the future. The one paragraph short story (4chan greentexts I guess), the 20 second hit single.

nanidin 5y ago

I’ve been suffering the same thing over the last few months. A helpful technique for me has been to swap out my smart watch for a dumb watch, and to put my phone in a drawer unless I intend to use it. I also heavily limited the types of things Facebook will send push notifications for. It used to be that if I got a notification, it was because one of my friends actually interacted with me in some way. Now I get a bunch of junk notifications that I feel are designed to pull me into the app and not really inform me of anything, to get me back to scrolling a feed. Like I’ll get a notification that someone I don’t know made a post in a group I’ve been in for years without ever getting a similar notification in the previous years. So I basically turned off everything that doesn't involve my actual friends doing something relevant to me.

ghaff 5y ago
>I also heavily limited the types of things Facebook will send push notifications for. That answer for me would be everything. (Except messenger which basically one friend uses for me because of where she lives.)
bspammer 5y ago
It’s funny because for me a smart watch is the perfect compromise - you still get a bunch of the useful features of a smartphone like navigation, timers, a calculator, music, Apple Pay, etc but with none of the really damaging web-based attention black holes. I often go out with only my watch, and it feels so freeing to have only the good side of technology accessible. I am very strict with the notification settings, otherwise the constant buzzing on the wrist would be worse than a phone.

luxurytent 5y ago

As a parent I've flip flopped between leaving my phone in the bed room / office during the day to flipping through TikTok while my kids crawl over me because my brain is so fried and all it wants is some dopamine hits to help get through that day. Thankfully, crawling out of the first year of our second child and sleep, routine, etc. is all getting easier (not being in COVID lockdown helps too) and I'm finding it more common for myself to leave my phone in the bedroom while I enjoy my day with the kids. I've also realized that the sole reason I bring my phone to the kid's park is in case I need to contact my wife, or vice versa. I've been tempted to get a smart watch w/ cellular just so I have less bulk to carry around, but a "dumb" phone may be just as sufficient ...

LeftHandPath 5y ago

I've started weening myself off of everything that's instant-gratification. No reddit, no imgur, no short-format news stories or list articles. A week ago I drove 9 hours for a camping trip and spent several days without my phone and smart-watch. For several months I've made a point to walk at least an hour a day (to go about 5 miles) without looking at my phone -- but I still wear my watch to track the distance. I still feel like I have to have some form of audio going in the background - maybe something educational, maybe ASMR - while I'm browsing hacker news. If I play a game, I still choose one without a narrative so that I can listen to a podcast while I play. I'm not sure that any of these habits are beneficial. I think Nicholas Carr had a great point in The Shallows (2010) [1] -- our brains have a lot of plasticity, even into late adulthood. The way we use the internet probably has a much larger impact on the way we think than we are currently willing to acknowledge. There is a healthy way to integrate electronics into our daily lives, but I don't think many of us have found it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shallows_(book) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shallows_(book)

baliex 5y ago

> What I miss more than anythi And then I collapsed your comment. It’s worse than I thought.

bigpeopleareold 5y ago

Just makes me think: When I get to this point (rarely if ever though with social media), I feel guilty. I possibly spend too much time on the computer, but I give myself these options if I am going to continue to use it (during spare time): learn a new thing related to my interests, write toy programs, or put it away and spend time with my wife, all if not at work.

agumonkey 5y ago

I try to walk phoneless more and more just to zone out entirely. Free mind holidays, no login required