5 ms·

The Cold War Fashion Showdown

28 points by benbreen 5y ago

assbuttbuttass 5y ago
We're still doing cold war propaganda 30 years later?
motohagiography 5y ago
The mystery of writing about fashion is why it matters. Bierce's "a despot whom the wise ridicule and obey," covers it. When you look at it as how people signal their alignment to what they percieve as power, it makes more sense. The article was essentially about who leads and who follows, and how they could tell, where when russians wore copies of western suits, the writing was on the wall, even if it would be decades before the wall came down. There is another piece to fashion, where it is a way to assess real desire. There are opinion polls and things people lie about, and then there are what they actually do. Envy for american fashions could have (and ultimately did) contribute to erosion of the soviet edifice. I remember hearing stories about how in the 80's, the vintage shops we all liked in the punk scene had made money by getting used jeans here to ship to Germany so they could be smuggled into Eastern Germany. Turns out the stories weren't apocryphal either, a transcript: https://www.businessinsider.com/brought-to-you-by-podcast-btyb-levis-came-in-from-cold?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/brought-to-you-by-podcast-bt... Such interesting times.
- mc32 5y ago
  >” where when russians wore copies of western suits, the writing was on the wall…” I don’t think that’s quite right. I think it’s more a reflection of the despot being dead (Stalin) and being free of that shackle. The UK and North America used to follow French fashion (hats, dresses, textiles, etc) that didn’t mean the French were winning (be it economic, cultural or otherwise) aristocracy just thought they had forward fashion sense.
  - motohagiography 5y ago
    On that last point, the House of Bourbon would probably disagree. They had rulers all over the world, and UK aristocrats adopting their fashion was arguably a nod to their ascendency, and as a way to distinguish themselves with with signals of the global and exotic. After the revolution/terror, french fashion was out until the rise of the industrial middle class. It was during/after the restoration that French brands like Charvet and Hermés were founded (c. 1830's) and still later, Louis Vuitton, and they once again became ascendent on the global stage. Themes in fashion are a pretty good macro signal for where growth is going.
dvh 5y ago
All workers in that era wore these working clothes: https://www.tifantex.sk/fotky39121/fotos/_vyrp11_35pracovne-odevy-suprava-klasik.jpg https://www.tifantex.sk/fotky39121/fotos/_vyrp11_35pracovne-... We called them "montérky". They were terrible. They didn't even had belt loops, you couldn't put any gear on you, as if they were designed to lower the productivity. The only thing they were good for was standing around with hands in your pockets. That's why communism failed.
- dr-detroit 5y ago
  Those wearables wont even sync with my iLife and appleThoughts!
- twic 5y ago
  In the '80s, the western countries were terrified of Japan because they feared they would soon develop the technology for trousers to have two belts. The productivity lead would have been unassailable.
  - cafard 5y ago
    Is that why one isn't supposed to wear a belt and suspenders, for fear of overproduction?
dr-detroit 5y ago
CIA has declassified all their reports from this era. They sent extremely wealthy socialites over and all they did was complain daily about how the free sausage line was 8 people long in downtown Moscow (the horror!) and they could only buy 10 varieties of boots (not enough!!!). Fashion is antihuman.
cafard 5y ago
Somewhere Ortega y Gasset, writing in the 1920s or 1930s, said that the British had the worst-dressed men in Europe, simply because they had matters of real importance to deal with.
jchallis 5y ago
There was a vintage Wendy's ad in the 1980s that spoofed just this lack of "fashion" sense. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CaMUfxVJVQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CaMUfxVJVQ

28 points by benbreen 5y ago

We're still doing cold war propaganda 30 years later?

The mystery of writing about fashion is why it matters. Bierce's "a despot whom the wise ridicule and obey," covers it. When you look at it as how people signal their alignment to what they percieve as power, it makes more sense. The article was essentially about who leads and who follows, and how they could tell, where when russians wore copies of western suits, the writing was on the wall, even if it would be decades before the wall came down. There is another piece to fashion, where it is a way to assess real desire. There are opinion polls and things people lie about, and then there are what they actually do. Envy for american fashions could have (and ultimately did) contribute to erosion of the soviet edifice. I remember hearing stories about how in the 80's, the vintage shops we all liked in the punk scene had made money by getting used jeans here to ship to Germany so they could be smuggled into Eastern Germany. Turns out the stories weren't apocryphal either, a transcript: https://www.businessinsider.com/brought-to-you-by-podcast-btyb-levis-came-in-from-cold?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/brought-to-you-by-podcast-bt... Such interesting times.

mc32 5y ago
>” where when russians wore copies of western suits, the writing was on the wall…” I don’t think that’s quite right. I think it’s more a reflection of the despot being dead (Stalin) and being free of that shackle. The UK and North America used to follow French fashion (hats, dresses, textiles, etc) that didn’t mean the French were winning (be it economic, cultural or otherwise) aristocracy just thought they had forward fashion sense.
- motohagiography 5y ago
  On that last point, the House of Bourbon would probably disagree. They had rulers all over the world, and UK aristocrats adopting their fashion was arguably a nod to their ascendency, and as a way to distinguish themselves with with signals of the global and exotic. After the revolution/terror, french fashion was out until the rise of the industrial middle class. It was during/after the restoration that French brands like Charvet and Hermés were founded (c. 1830's) and still later, Louis Vuitton, and they once again became ascendent on the global stage. Themes in fashion are a pretty good macro signal for where growth is going.

dvh 5y ago

All workers in that era wore these working clothes: https://www.tifantex.sk/fotky39121/fotos/_vyrp11_35pracovne-odevy-suprava-klasik.jpg https://www.tifantex.sk/fotky39121/fotos/_vyrp11_35pracovne-... We called them "montérky". They were terrible. They didn't even had belt loops, you couldn't put any gear on you, as if they were designed to lower the productivity. The only thing they were good for was standing around with hands in your pockets. That's why communism failed.

dr-detroit 5y ago
Those wearables wont even sync with my iLife and appleThoughts!
twic 5y ago
In the '80s, the western countries were terrified of Japan because they feared they would soon develop the technology for trousers to have two belts. The productivity lead would have been unassailable.
- cafard 5y ago
  Is that why one isn't supposed to wear a belt and suspenders, for fear of overproduction?

dr-detroit 5y ago

CIA has declassified all their reports from this era. They sent extremely wealthy socialites over and all they did was complain daily about how the free sausage line was 8 people long in downtown Moscow (the horror!) and they could only buy 10 varieties of boots (not enough!!!). Fashion is antihuman.

cafard 5y ago

Somewhere Ortega y Gasset, writing in the 1920s or 1930s, said that the British had the worst-dressed men in Europe, simply because they had matters of real importance to deal with.

jchallis 5y ago

There was a vintage Wendy's ad in the 1980s that spoofed just this lack of "fashion" sense. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CaMUfxVJVQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CaMUfxVJVQ