8 ms·

Why? Plenty of people are able to drive a vehicle, and drive it well. It's the many who aren't, or choose to ignore the rules who are causing danger. The "ever

by imajes 15y ago

Why? Plenty of people are able to drive a vehicle, and drive it well. It's the many who aren't, or choose to ignore the rules who are causing danger. The "every vehicle should be automated" line is lowest common denominator FUD. How about we start by actually applying a proper, rigorous upgrade to the new driver education from the DMV, and stop treating driving as a right, and instead a privilege? How about we improve mass transit and spend more money fixing roads (which is a bigger cause of accidents than you might imagine). What about Signage, which is over abundant and people ignore - or important signage which is entirely missing (many median lines are faded away - not repainted due to lack of funding)? And what about the culture where drinking and driving is, in many states, acceptable? Why isn't there a dramatic and meaningful campaign to demonstrate that there is really only zero-tolerance to drink-driving that is acceptable? The United States approach to driving is embarrassing and smacks of largesse, but for much of the country, where there is an abundance of space and empty roads, is tolerated. Accidents happen routinely in city centers and suburban areas where the laws and driving regulations are not more stricter, but often just as (if not more) relaxed. There isn't consideration given to heavy traffic, patterns of driving, preparing for exits - it's just expected that as long as you know how to steer and stop at a sign, you are qualified to drive. Computer controlled cars is a stupid argument (mostly because they are almost already there, in the full part, and certainly the car you are driving is doing more work than you are to get you to your destination). Never mind the fact that the better answer is amazing and undeniable mass transit, obviating the need for personal car ownership in densely populated areas, and a 2-3 magnitude leap in driver education to prevent such stupidity on the roads as a basic requirement to even begin to address this problem.

abduhl 15y ago
And what about the culture where drinking and driving is, in many states, acceptable? Why isn't there a dramatic and meaningful campaign to demonstrate that there is really only zero-tolerance to drink-driving that is acceptable? States have been cracking down on drunk driving for the past decade or two. If there ever was a culture where drinking and driving was "acceptable" on a state level it has long since disappeared. If you don't mind me asking, where do you currently live (you're clearly from the Queen's domain) and, if it isn't in the US, how did you get this idea that the US doesn't take drinking and driving seriously?
- sliverstorm 15y ago
  how did you get this idea that the US doesn't take drinking and driving seriously? As a US citizen I will observe, I have found far too many don't take it seriously. Additionally, it is sometimes hard to believe our government takes it seriously. Just a year or two ago there was a lady killed on her scooter in SF by a drunk driver. Turns out it was that driver's 3rd conviction of drunk driving, and 2nd or 3rd vehicular homicide while drunk. Anecdotes aside, compare the punishments for DUI's in the USA to the rest of the world. I think you'll find they are comparatively more lenient than you might suspect.
  - abduhl 15y ago
    Comparing the punishment for a first offense DUI in my state (Colorado [1]) to the UK [2]: Format will be Punishment: CO/UK License suspended for: 9 months/12-36 months, depending on BAC Fine: $600-$1000/£0-£5000 (apparently £300-£400 is typical due to how the UK hands out fines with their band system [3]) Jailtime: Minimum 5 days, maximum 1 year/Depends on BAC but none is pretty standard until you get to a .276 and then it's 3 months to 6 months standard Community service: 48-96 hours/Depends on BAC, but none is standard until you get to a .207 BAC It looks to me as though my state (which is not indicative of the United States) takes drunk driving much more seriously. This isn't even considering the fact that a DWAI can be given out to a driver that blows a .05 (the UK requires a .08) at the officer's discretion. DWAI penalties are similar to DUI penalties. Note also that it is mandatory for you to disclose any alcohol related driving offenses when you apply for a job in Colorado so it isn't like you can hide behind something being a misdemeanor vs a felony. [1] http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_dir/olls/PDF/COLORADO%20DRUNK%20DRIVING%20LAWS.pdf http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_dir/olls/PDF/COLORADO%20D... [2] http://sentencingcouncil.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/Magistrates_Guidelines_including_update_1__2__3_4_web.pdf http://sentencingcouncil.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/Magistrates_G... p.124 [3] http://www.80mg.org.uk/ddlaw.html http://www.80mg.org.uk/ddlaw.html
    - imajes 15y ago
      Whilst I don't have stats on hand, it's FAR more likely in your state for a plea bargain than in the UK, since that's the way each legal system is structured. So, in the UK, you can pretty much guarantee you're going to be in trouble. In the US, there's a reasonable chance you'll get off. That completely changes the risk balance judgement you make before you go and drink-drive. (obviously that's speculation, but I think it's a reasonable statement).
coryrc 15y ago
> mass transit ... densely populated areas In America, we have a choice of where we want to live. Do we take the .011%/yr chance we will die in an auto accident and also have a large house, yard, and live in a safer neighborhood for our kids? Or do we live in the higher-crime urban center, but ride mass transportation? He tragically lost on these odds, and it is a sad day for his family and humanity. I have a friend who commutes to work via motorcycle, so he can spend an extra 40 minutes a day with his kids versus driving a car. Or hours better than mass transit. But, you are correct that drivers need to pass stricter testing and it needs to occur regularly, but since the majority of voters are bad drivers and could very well lose their licenses, it will always be opposed.
- imajes 15y ago
  I agree. But i'd like to see several magnitudes more investment in mass transit and mass transit systems before mandatory driverless cars. I think we can achieve much more if we put our minds to solving that problem (mass trans) first.

by imajes 15y ago

abduhl 15y ago

And what about the culture where drinking and driving is, in many states, acceptable? Why isn't there a dramatic and meaningful campaign to demonstrate that there is really only zero-tolerance to drink-driving that is acceptable? States have been cracking down on drunk driving for the past decade or two. If there ever was a culture where drinking and driving was "acceptable" on a state level it has long since disappeared. If you don't mind me asking, where do you currently live (you're clearly from the Queen's domain) and, if it isn't in the US, how did you get this idea that the US doesn't take drinking and driving seriously?

sliverstorm 15y ago
how did you get this idea that the US doesn't take drinking and driving seriously? As a US citizen I will observe, I have found far too many don't take it seriously. Additionally, it is sometimes hard to believe our government takes it seriously. Just a year or two ago there was a lady killed on her scooter in SF by a drunk driver. Turns out it was that driver's 3rd conviction of drunk driving, and 2nd or 3rd vehicular homicide while drunk. Anecdotes aside, compare the punishments for DUI's in the USA to the rest of the world. I think you'll find they are comparatively more lenient than you might suspect.
- abduhl 15y ago
  Comparing the punishment for a first offense DUI in my state (Colorado [1]) to the UK [2]: Format will be Punishment: CO/UK License suspended for: 9 months/12-36 months, depending on BAC Fine: $600-$1000/£0-£5000 (apparently £300-£400 is typical due to how the UK hands out fines with their band system [3]) Jailtime: Minimum 5 days, maximum 1 year/Depends on BAC but none is pretty standard until you get to a .276 and then it's 3 months to 6 months standard Community service: 48-96 hours/Depends on BAC, but none is standard until you get to a .207 BAC It looks to me as though my state (which is not indicative of the United States) takes drunk driving much more seriously. This isn't even considering the fact that a DWAI can be given out to a driver that blows a .05 (the UK requires a .08) at the officer's discretion. DWAI penalties are similar to DUI penalties. Note also that it is mandatory for you to disclose any alcohol related driving offenses when you apply for a job in Colorado so it isn't like you can hide behind something being a misdemeanor vs a felony. [1] http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_dir/olls/PDF/COLORADO%20DRUNK%20DRIVING%20LAWS.pdf http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_dir/olls/PDF/COLORADO%20D... [2] http://sentencingcouncil.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/Magistrates_Guidelines_including_update_1__2__3_4_web.pdf http://sentencingcouncil.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/Magistrates_G... p.124 [3] http://www.80mg.org.uk/ddlaw.html http://www.80mg.org.uk/ddlaw.html
  - imajes 15y ago
    Whilst I don't have stats on hand, it's FAR more likely in your state for a plea bargain than in the UK, since that's the way each legal system is structured. So, in the UK, you can pretty much guarantee you're going to be in trouble. In the US, there's a reasonable chance you'll get off. That completely changes the risk balance judgement you make before you go and drink-drive. (obviously that's speculation, but I think it's a reasonable statement).

coryrc 15y ago

> mass transit ... densely populated areas In America, we have a choice of where we want to live. Do we take the .011%/yr chance we will die in an auto accident and also have a large house, yard, and live in a safer neighborhood for our kids? Or do we live in the higher-crime urban center, but ride mass transportation? He tragically lost on these odds, and it is a sad day for his family and humanity. I have a friend who commutes to work via motorcycle, so he can spend an extra 40 minutes a day with his kids versus driving a car. Or hours better than mass transit. But, you are correct that drivers need to pass stricter testing and it needs to occur regularly, but since the majority of voters are bad drivers and could very well lose their licenses, it will always be opposed.

imajes 15y ago
I agree. But i'd like to see several magnitudes more investment in mass transit and mass transit systems before mandatory driverless cars. I think we can achieve much more if we put our minds to solving that problem (mass trans) first.