4 ms·

As an aside, it's been a bit surprising to see the disconnect on so many topics regarding France in the NYT in the last few months. This seems like just the la

by cwizou 5y ago

As an aside, it's been a bit surprising to see the disconnect on so many topics regarding France in the NYT in the last few months. This seems like just the latest (and fairly mild) episode of this, but it's still a bit puzzling to me as a former (sort of) journalist to see so much editorialising, and in this case, an utter lack of facts and context. There's not much on the goals behind that pass, the impact of covid on many of the other options, or any background on the local "bd" culture that would explain the difference to the US comics culture to the reader. The title certainly doesn't help. At that point I don't know if I'm just getting more picky with time, but the fact to editorialising ratio in the NYT seem to have shifted to, at least to me, a fairly uncomfortable level pretty much every time I stumble onto one of their articles.

not_exactly__ 5y ago
I’ve personally stopped reading NYT specifically because of this editorializing vs just reporting issue. It’s really frustrating to see in individual articles; in the greater scheme of things, it’s sad to observe. NYT has always had blunders (eg 2003 war in Iraq), but this is something else altogether.
zepto 5y ago
> the fact to editorialising ratio in the NYT seem to have shifted to, at least to me, a fairly uncomfortable level pretty much every time I stumble onto one of their articles It’s not just you. You are waking up from the gell-mann amnesia.
nagrom 5y ago
It's not just France - the way that the NYT treats the UK has become a running joke e.g: https://londonist.com/london/food-and-drink/until-recently-londoners-ate-boiled-mutton-and-porridge-according-to-this-new-york-times-article https://londonist.com/london/food-and-drink/until-recently-l... https://unherd.com/2020/01/what-has-the-new-york-times-got-against-britain/ https://unherd.com/2020/01/what-has-the-new-york-times-got-a... This weird inability to reflect reality I see day-to-day coupled with the insistence on anti-patterns of behaviour for those cancelling their subscriptions has prevented me from taking out a sub to the NYT. That's a shame, as some of the articles are great.
- mcguire 5y ago
  You have to admit that Great Britain has a long-term reputation for boiling food to death. And their sporting culture seems even more Leroy Jenkins than that in the US.
  - cududa 5y ago
    Our Scottish and US families have long running jokes about one another’s cultures, and the food part was a long one. Until the matriarch on the Scottish side was here with a larger amount of the family and said “well our food is kind of pish in comparison”
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    >You have to admit that Great Britain has a long-term reputation for boiling food to death. Not for a long time. >And their sporting culture seems even more Leroy Jenkins than that in the US. Currently 6th in the medal table for the Olympics.
    - mcguire 5y ago
      With or without laser pointers? :-)
- prof-dr-ir 5y ago
  The second reference you gave lists four opinion pieces, one culinary review whose tongue-in-cheek comment it misinterprets, and one actual news article about the impact of austerity in Britain. That one news article was a subject of intense discussion at the time which quickly became politicized. A decent overview of the discussion can be found at https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/business/prescot-makes-front-page-new-14719571 https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/business/prescot-makes-... For what it's worth, I wholly subscribe to the OP's viewpoint that the NY times' reports from France have been subpar in recent months - in my view they have been too Americo-Centric and do not sufficiently recognize the different value system in France. But I have often been positively surprised by the paper's reporting on UK issues (and on Brexit in particular).
rossdavidh 5y ago
Definitely not just you.
asdff 5y ago
LA Times has even parodied how NYT tends to cover Los Angeles. https://www.latimes.com/food/la-fo-nyc-restaurant-scene-april-fools-2019-story.html https://www.latimes.com/food/la-fo-nyc-restaurant-scene-apri...
- bsder 5y ago
  That was brilliant. Thanks for sharing it.
- AutumnCurtain 5y ago
  Non-paywall link: https://archive.is/xbkmm https://archive.is/xbkmm Absolutely brilliant article IMO
908B64B197 5y ago
> As an aside, it's been a bit surprising to see the disconnect on so many topics regarding France in the NYT in the last few months. Not the NYT, but I still remember the "No go zones" CNN boasted about. [0] [1] I still remember French co-workers having a good laugh at it. It's tough to fact-check anything when you don't speak the language. [0] https://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2015/01/cnn-apologizes-for-no-go-zones-segments-201460 https://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2015/01/cnn-apologizes-... [1] https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/01/21/natpkg-look-at-paris-no-go-zones.cnn/video/playlists/terror-attack-in-paris/ https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/01/21/natpkg-look-at-pari...

by cwizou 5y ago

not_exactly__ 5y ago

I’ve personally stopped reading NYT specifically because of this editorializing vs just reporting issue. It’s really frustrating to see in individual articles; in the greater scheme of things, it’s sad to observe. NYT has always had blunders (eg 2003 war in Iraq), but this is something else altogether.

zepto 5y ago

> the fact to editorialising ratio in the NYT seem to have shifted to, at least to me, a fairly uncomfortable level pretty much every time I stumble onto one of their articles It’s not just you. You are waking up from the gell-mann amnesia.

nagrom 5y ago

It's not just France - the way that the NYT treats the UK has become a running joke e.g: https://londonist.com/london/food-and-drink/until-recently-londoners-ate-boiled-mutton-and-porridge-according-to-this-new-york-times-article https://londonist.com/london/food-and-drink/until-recently-l... https://unherd.com/2020/01/what-has-the-new-york-times-got-against-britain/ https://unherd.com/2020/01/what-has-the-new-york-times-got-a... This weird inability to reflect reality I see day-to-day coupled with the insistence on anti-patterns of behaviour for those cancelling their subscriptions has prevented me from taking out a sub to the NYT. That's a shame, as some of the articles are great.

mcguire 5y ago
You have to admit that Great Britain has a long-term reputation for boiling food to death. And their sporting culture seems even more Leroy Jenkins than that in the US.
- cududa 5y ago
  Our Scottish and US families have long running jokes about one another’s cultures, and the food part was a long one. Until the matriarch on the Scottish side was here with a larger amount of the family and said “well our food is kind of pish in comparison”
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  >You have to admit that Great Britain has a long-term reputation for boiling food to death. Not for a long time. >And their sporting culture seems even more Leroy Jenkins than that in the US. Currently 6th in the medal table for the Olympics.
  - mcguire 5y ago
    With or without laser pointers? :-)
prof-dr-ir 5y ago
The second reference you gave lists four opinion pieces, one culinary review whose tongue-in-cheek comment it misinterprets, and one actual news article about the impact of austerity in Britain. That one news article was a subject of intense discussion at the time which quickly became politicized. A decent overview of the discussion can be found at https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/business/prescot-makes-front-page-new-14719571 https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/business/prescot-makes-... For what it's worth, I wholly subscribe to the OP's viewpoint that the NY times' reports from France have been subpar in recent months - in my view they have been too Americo-Centric and do not sufficiently recognize the different value system in France. But I have often been positively surprised by the paper's reporting on UK issues (and on Brexit in particular).

rossdavidh 5y ago

Definitely not just you.

asdff 5y ago

LA Times has even parodied how NYT tends to cover Los Angeles. https://www.latimes.com/food/la-fo-nyc-restaurant-scene-april-fools-2019-story.html https://www.latimes.com/food/la-fo-nyc-restaurant-scene-apri...

bsder 5y ago
That was brilliant. Thanks for sharing it.
AutumnCurtain 5y ago
Non-paywall link: https://archive.is/xbkmm https://archive.is/xbkmm Absolutely brilliant article IMO

908B64B197 5y ago

> As an aside, it's been a bit surprising to see the disconnect on so many topics regarding France in the NYT in the last few months. Not the NYT, but I still remember the "No go zones" CNN boasted about. [0] [1] I still remember French co-workers having a good laugh at it. It's tough to fact-check anything when you don't speak the language. [0] https://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2015/01/cnn-apologizes-for-no-go-zones-segments-201460 https://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2015/01/cnn-apologizes-... [1] https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/01/21/natpkg-look-at-paris-no-go-zones.cnn/video/playlists/terror-attack-in-paris/ https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/01/21/natpkg-look-at-pari...