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> * Inane arguments in pubs about facts that couldn't be instantly googled. I don't miss those. Before the Internet, if it wasn't on an encyclopedia and you we

> * Inane arguments in pubs about facts that couldn't be instantly googled. I don't miss those. Before the Internet, if it wasn't on an encyclopedia and you weren't at the library, you had no way of corroborating information. On the other hand, since facts are so accessible right now, those arguments have shifted to voicing their feelings and wishes because those can't be falsified.

OJFord 5y ago
Perhaps 'inane arguments in pubs' isn't the best framing, but I do find the ability to ~instantly search for an answer online kills a lot of discussion. I find it quite irritating sometimes - can we not just talk about it! - and it's not like I have a long memory before it was possible. (I grew up with phones certainly, was in school when they became 'smart'.)
jsight 5y ago
You aren't kidding, I'm also seeing a trend of people claiming that any information that doesn't match their viewpoint must be faked or dishonest.
- johncessna 5y ago
  The issue isn't that people are just huffing, crossing their arms, and crying fake news. The issue is that they are able to bring up 100 different sites supporting their claims. The person they are arguing with, obviously knows that the other is an idiot because they have 100 different sites supporting their claims! In a way, we've regressed back before we had the answer machine at our fingertips. You don't really know who's correct. It's just changed from 'Well, I heard xyz from my friend's aunt's sister, so I'm right. Oh yeah! Gary just said the opposite yesterday, so you're wrong' to something a little bit different.
  - flavius29663 5y ago
    It's like we're reaching the times when we should again start thinking more for ourselves, given the information at hand: make assumptions, try to prove them, try a reductio ad absurdum etc. But unfortunately people's brains are fried because of the constant social media bombardment.
  - jsight 5y ago
    I see that happening too, but tbh, I see it happening even without evidence. Its almost like some weird form of "thinking for yourself", but taken to the point of rejecting any evidence that doesn't match the preconceived notion. There doesn't even need to be evidence on the other side.
  - ASalazarMX 5y ago
    Humanity as a whole is still learning to cope with the Internet. We're still learning that it has beautiful and disgusting things, many hiding as the other.
munificent 5y ago
The fundamental way that humans begin bonding is through favor exchange. I give you something. You give me something. Back and forth until eventually we lose count and realize we have become fast friends. Information sharing is an extremely low barrier kind of favor because when I give you some information, I still have it too. When we no longer need each other to learn about that hole in the wall restaurant, that new band, how to fix a leaky sink, we have also lost important tools to forge connections with each other. I worry a lot that the Internet and cheap consumer goods has essentially knocked the bottom rungs off the ladder of human relationships. I don't need others to find a place to eat or live, or to learn a new skill or hobby. But I do still need them to share my feelings and worries with. But it's really hard to jump straight to the level of relationship where you can talk about those things without going through several rounds of "Hey, can I borrow your drill?" and "Do you remember who voiced Fred Flintstone?"
- javajosh 5y ago
  >When we no longer need each other to learn about that hole in the wall restaurant, that new band And yet the best information is still person-to-person, old school. It lives in the cracks that software misses and where review systems are gamed. Finding good Indian food is hard - but the locals know. Who has an open mic night? Hard to say without connections. Maybe the ultimate example is real estate - deep knowledge of any given place comes after you've lived there, and understand it's history, is life. And that's impossible to represent online. >cheap consumer goods Yes: making everything in Shenzen is a problem because now it's the only community that knows how to make and fix things. (Obviously its not 100% the case, but its mostly the case.) That lack of distributed ability has follow-on effects that we don't understand yet -- most worryingly having to do with national security, but also about agency and curiosity and self-determination. Maybe we should have to pass a test before being allowed to use any particular object, showing that we at least know how its made and where it's constituent parts come from.

OJFord 5y ago

Perhaps 'inane arguments in pubs' isn't the best framing, but I do find the ability to ~instantly search for an answer online kills a lot of discussion. I find it quite irritating sometimes - can we not just talk about it! - and it's not like I have a long memory before it was possible. (I grew up with phones certainly, was in school when they became 'smart'.)

jsight 5y ago

You aren't kidding, I'm also seeing a trend of people claiming that any information that doesn't match their viewpoint must be faked or dishonest.

johncessna 5y ago
The issue isn't that people are just huffing, crossing their arms, and crying fake news. The issue is that they are able to bring up 100 different sites supporting their claims. The person they are arguing with, obviously knows that the other is an idiot because they have 100 different sites supporting their claims! In a way, we've regressed back before we had the answer machine at our fingertips. You don't really know who's correct. It's just changed from 'Well, I heard xyz from my friend's aunt's sister, so I'm right. Oh yeah! Gary just said the opposite yesterday, so you're wrong' to something a little bit different.
- flavius29663 5y ago
  It's like we're reaching the times when we should again start thinking more for ourselves, given the information at hand: make assumptions, try to prove them, try a reductio ad absurdum etc. But unfortunately people's brains are fried because of the constant social media bombardment.
- jsight 5y ago
  I see that happening too, but tbh, I see it happening even without evidence. Its almost like some weird form of "thinking for yourself", but taken to the point of rejecting any evidence that doesn't match the preconceived notion. There doesn't even need to be evidence on the other side.
- ASalazarMX 5y ago
  Humanity as a whole is still learning to cope with the Internet. We're still learning that it has beautiful and disgusting things, many hiding as the other.

munificent 5y ago

The fundamental way that humans begin bonding is through favor exchange. I give you something. You give me something. Back and forth until eventually we lose count and realize we have become fast friends. Information sharing is an extremely low barrier kind of favor because when I give you some information, I still have it too. When we no longer need each other to learn about that hole in the wall restaurant, that new band, how to fix a leaky sink, we have also lost important tools to forge connections with each other. I worry a lot that the Internet and cheap consumer goods has essentially knocked the bottom rungs off the ladder of human relationships. I don't need others to find a place to eat or live, or to learn a new skill or hobby. But I do still need them to share my feelings and worries with. But it's really hard to jump straight to the level of relationship where you can talk about those things without going through several rounds of "Hey, can I borrow your drill?" and "Do you remember who voiced Fred Flintstone?"

javajosh 5y ago
>When we no longer need each other to learn about that hole in the wall restaurant, that new band And yet the best information is still person-to-person, old school. It lives in the cracks that software misses and where review systems are gamed. Finding good Indian food is hard - but the locals know. Who has an open mic night? Hard to say without connections. Maybe the ultimate example is real estate - deep knowledge of any given place comes after you've lived there, and understand it's history, is life. And that's impossible to represent online. >cheap consumer goods Yes: making everything in Shenzen is a problem because now it's the only community that knows how to make and fix things. (Obviously its not 100% the case, but its mostly the case.) That lack of distributed ability has follow-on effects that we don't understand yet -- most worryingly having to do with national security, but also about agency and curiosity and self-determination. Maybe we should have to pass a test before being allowed to use any particular object, showing that we at least know how its made and where it's constituent parts come from.