5 ms·

I always thought tomatoes were pretty good and then I had tomatoes in Europe.

vanderZwan 5y ago
I guess that means you had them in a Mediterranean country, because elsewhere in Europe they still are rather bland in my (northern European) opinion
- spywaregorilla 5y ago
  Yes this is the key. Most of Europe is in the same boat. Eating produce in Greece however is astoundingly better. Italy was less consistent on this but still better. Which leads me to wonder if its really the genetic choices or is it just something about the farming, nutritional rich soils, or transportation/timing?
  - idlemind 5y ago
    Sunshine is the other big variable. Most fruit will only get sweet during ripening if it's receiving enough sunlight. This is why red grapes are seldom grown in northern latitudes - their dark skin blocks sunlight and prevents them from sweetening during ripening.
    - AfterShave 5y ago
      Is it really about sunlight and not heat though? Otherwise one would expect to see more sweet fruit coming from northern europe than is the case. Given the near absence of "night."
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    France is good for tomatoes too. I think it's definitely partly about local availability. But probably also a bit to do with cultural consumer choices too. France/Italy/Greece all have big food cultures in a way that isn't quite matched by northern European countries. That said, it seems to be getting easier to get high quality vegetables (including tomatoes) here in the UK. It's not from a supermarket and you pay more, but it is available (maybe still not quite as good as other countries, but certainly much improved on the flavourless stuff).
    - dagw 5y ago
      France has great tomatoes, but a random tomato you buy on sale at the huge supermarkets aren't any better than anywhere else (in my experience).
      - liotier 5y ago
        In France, standard supermarket tomatoes are standard bad - but we see increasing availability of different species obviously taking genes from heirloom varieties... They taste great and consumers are beginning to understand that weird shapes and colours mean flavour.
  - jeromenerf 5y ago
    > Which leads me to wonder if its really the genetic choices or is it just something about the farming, nutritional rich soils, or transportation/timing? - the soil plays no great role in taste but is of course the farmer most precious resource. - the plant genetics is preponderant in taste. - the consumers and farmer genetics and culture are loosely related to the plant genetics. - the missing pieces, distribution and seed providers, are the most important pieces, deciding on prices, margins and on the characteristics necessary of the products to improve those. Local products are always best. But I can’t grow exotic fruits in Paris.
  - pvaldes 5y ago
    Forget about local markets. Most of the tomatoes eaten in Central Europe came from the 'sea of plastic' in the Mediterranean Spain and Morocco. Cultured from dutch seeds selected to grow really fast. Is a combination of long travel, green picked and so-so cultivars breed for market.
- riffraff 5y ago
  It's also seasonal, and depending on the provenance (local/imported). I live in Hungary and tomatoes are crap for 10 months a year, when they're generally imported from abroad and are obviously picked up unripe. Then during the summer you can buy tasteful tomatoes for a while, sourced locally. In Italy they're better on average, but you can also find tasteless dutch ones in supermarkets (again, picked up unripe).
  - bonzini 5y ago
    Yeah, in Italy you have to buy the local varieties. Non-PDO/PGI (protected designation of origin/protected geographical indication) cherry tomatoes are going to be tasteless (and cheaper).
- Nursie 5y ago
  You can get good ones in supermarkets in the UK, you just have to spend more and know what you’re looking for. Recently I tried Bull’s Heart, which were stupid expensive but delicious. But you can get San Marzano in a bunch of places, and various other plum and cherry varieties with good flavours. It’s just the average “salad tomato” that tastes like crunchy water.
dagw 5y ago
Where the 'European' ones better or worse? As a norther European, I've always found the tomatoes in the US far better than what I normally get.
asdff 5y ago
Anyone can grow a pot of heirloom tomatoes outside in the summertime and end up with tomatoes that blow everything at the supermarket out of the water, if you can manage the pests. You can get pretty great produce at certain farmers markets, too.
- dylan604 5y ago
  After shelling out ~$50-$100 for intitial setup, you too can harvest $5 worth of tomatoes! And as you say, if you can keep the pests free, but that also requires for money to add to that inital purchase. The insect/worms/catepillars in my area are more vicious than rodent invasions. If you get catepillars, they can wipe out an entire plant in a day.
  - robocat 5y ago
    > you too can harvest $5 worth of tomatoes Your attitude is the problem - DONT equate $5 of supermarket tomatoes with an equivalent weight of home grown tomatoes. I go out of my way to buy “expensive” tomatoes, because I don’t think of good tomatoes as being cheap produce, but more like an expensive vegetable (although price is still seasonal).
    - dylan604 5y ago
      My attitude? I love gardening and growing my own vegetables. It is a simple truth, and the numbers don't lie. It gives me pleasure and enjoyment to do it. So the "entertainment" factor alone is worth it. At the end of the day for new people trying gardening, it can be a bit disappointning. To make it all 100% magical panacea without actual realization of monetary factors, you're not being honest with potential new growers.
  - quesera 5y ago
    $50-100 is way overestimated. You can grow tomatoes in inexpensive pots. Seedlings are inexpensive. Maybe $15 total, plus water, time, and patience. The latter two of those can be expensive, but difficult to quantify.

I guess that means you had them in a Mediterranean country, because elsewhere in Europe they still are rather bland in my (northern European) opinion

spywaregorilla 5y ago
Yes this is the key. Most of Europe is in the same boat. Eating produce in Greece however is astoundingly better. Italy was less consistent on this but still better. Which leads me to wonder if its really the genetic choices or is it just something about the farming, nutritional rich soils, or transportation/timing?
- idlemind 5y ago
  Sunshine is the other big variable. Most fruit will only get sweet during ripening if it's receiving enough sunlight. This is why red grapes are seldom grown in northern latitudes - their dark skin blocks sunlight and prevents them from sweetening during ripening.
  - AfterShave 5y ago
    Is it really about sunlight and not heat though? Otherwise one would expect to see more sweet fruit coming from northern europe than is the case. Given the near absence of "night."
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- nicoburns 5y ago
  France is good for tomatoes too. I think it's definitely partly about local availability. But probably also a bit to do with cultural consumer choices too. France/Italy/Greece all have big food cultures in a way that isn't quite matched by northern European countries. That said, it seems to be getting easier to get high quality vegetables (including tomatoes) here in the UK. It's not from a supermarket and you pay more, but it is available (maybe still not quite as good as other countries, but certainly much improved on the flavourless stuff).
  - dagw 5y ago
    France has great tomatoes, but a random tomato you buy on sale at the huge supermarkets aren't any better than anywhere else (in my experience).
    - liotier 5y ago
      In France, standard supermarket tomatoes are standard bad - but we see increasing availability of different species obviously taking genes from heirloom varieties... They taste great and consumers are beginning to understand that weird shapes and colours mean flavour.
- jeromenerf 5y ago
  > Which leads me to wonder if its really the genetic choices or is it just something about the farming, nutritional rich soils, or transportation/timing? - the soil plays no great role in taste but is of course the farmer most precious resource. - the plant genetics is preponderant in taste. - the consumers and farmer genetics and culture are loosely related to the plant genetics. - the missing pieces, distribution and seed providers, are the most important pieces, deciding on prices, margins and on the characteristics necessary of the products to improve those. Local products are always best. But I can’t grow exotic fruits in Paris.
- pvaldes 5y ago
  Forget about local markets. Most of the tomatoes eaten in Central Europe came from the 'sea of plastic' in the Mediterranean Spain and Morocco. Cultured from dutch seeds selected to grow really fast. Is a combination of long travel, green picked and so-so cultivars breed for market.
riffraff 5y ago
It's also seasonal, and depending on the provenance (local/imported). I live in Hungary and tomatoes are crap for 10 months a year, when they're generally imported from abroad and are obviously picked up unripe. Then during the summer you can buy tasteful tomatoes for a while, sourced locally. In Italy they're better on average, but you can also find tasteless dutch ones in supermarkets (again, picked up unripe).
- bonzini 5y ago
  Yeah, in Italy you have to buy the local varieties. Non-PDO/PGI (protected designation of origin/protected geographical indication) cherry tomatoes are going to be tasteless (and cheaper).
Nursie 5y ago
You can get good ones in supermarkets in the UK, you just have to spend more and know what you’re looking for. Recently I tried Bull’s Heart, which were stupid expensive but delicious. But you can get San Marzano in a bunch of places, and various other plum and cherry varieties with good flavours. It’s just the average “salad tomato” that tastes like crunchy water.

dagw 5y ago

Where the 'European' ones better or worse? As a norther European, I've always found the tomatoes in the US far better than what I normally get.

asdff 5y ago

Anyone can grow a pot of heirloom tomatoes outside in the summertime and end up with tomatoes that blow everything at the supermarket out of the water, if you can manage the pests. You can get pretty great produce at certain farmers markets, too.

dylan604 5y ago
After shelling out ~$50-$100 for intitial setup, you too can harvest $5 worth of tomatoes! And as you say, if you can keep the pests free, but that also requires for money to add to that inital purchase. The insect/worms/catepillars in my area are more vicious than rodent invasions. If you get catepillars, they can wipe out an entire plant in a day.
- robocat 5y ago
  > you too can harvest $5 worth of tomatoes Your attitude is the problem - DONT equate $5 of supermarket tomatoes with an equivalent weight of home grown tomatoes. I go out of my way to buy “expensive” tomatoes, because I don’t think of good tomatoes as being cheap produce, but more like an expensive vegetable (although price is still seasonal).
  - dylan604 5y ago
    My attitude? I love gardening and growing my own vegetables. It is a simple truth, and the numbers don't lie. It gives me pleasure and enjoyment to do it. So the "entertainment" factor alone is worth it. At the end of the day for new people trying gardening, it can be a bit disappointning. To make it all 100% magical panacea without actual realization of monetary factors, you're not being honest with potential new growers.
- quesera 5y ago
  $50-100 is way overestimated. You can grow tomatoes in inexpensive pots. Seedlings are inexpensive. Maybe $15 total, plus water, time, and patience. The latter two of those can be expensive, but difficult to quantify.