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I started working professionally with Clojure earlier this year and this article rings true. I think the article leaves out a fourth downside to running on the

I started working professionally with Clojure earlier this year and this article rings true. I think the article leaves out a fourth downside to running on the JVM: cryptic stack traces. Clojure will often throw Java errors when you do something wrong in Clojure. It's a bit of a pain to reason about what part of your Clojure code this Java error relates to, especially when just starting out.

finalfantasia 5y ago
To be fair, this is not unique to Clojure. You need to deal with stack traces no matter what as long as you're using any programming language that targets the JVM (even statically type-checked languages like Scala). There are some great articles [1][2] that discuss various simple techniques helpful for debugging and dealing with stack traces. [1] https://eli.thegreenplace.net/2017/notes-on-debugging-clojure-code/ https://eli.thegreenplace.net/2017/notes-on-debugging-clojur... [2] https://cognitect.com/blog/2017/6/5/repl-debugging-no-stacktrace-required https://cognitect.com/blog/2017/6/5/repl-debugging-no-stackt...
- rockostrich 5y ago
  I've never really had a problem with stack traces in Scala. Every once in a while you hit a cryptic one that's buried in Java library code, but for the most part they're runtime errors that are due to incompletely tested code or some kind of handled error with a very specific message.
alaq 5y ago
How did you make the switch? Were you already working for the same company? Did you already know Clojure, from open source, or side projects?
- ivanech 5y ago
  I work at Ladder [0], and almost everything is done in Clojure/ClojureScript here. I had no previous experience in Clojure – Ladder ramps you if you haven't used it before. My interview was in Python. We're currently hiring senior engineers, no Clojure experience necessary [1]. [0] https://www.ladderlife.com/ https://www.ladderlife.com/ [1] https://boards.greenhouse.io/ladder33/jobs/2436386 https://boards.greenhouse.io/ladder33/jobs/2436386
  - marciol 5y ago
    Remote from everywhere or only in USA?
    - alaq 5y ago
      Looks like the remote situation is only temporary. From their website [0]: "On returning to our office in Palo Alto, California At the moment, our employees are currently living and working all over the country. When it’s safe to gather again, we fully intend to return to the office." [0] https://www.ladderlife.com/careers https://www.ladderlife.com/careers
  - alaq 5y ago
    This is great to hear that Clojure experience is not a requirement! Thank you for sharing. I am based in NY and not willing to relocate, so I will look into NY/remote companies :)

finalfantasia 5y ago

To be fair, this is not unique to Clojure. You need to deal with stack traces no matter what as long as you're using any programming language that targets the JVM (even statically type-checked languages like Scala). There are some great articles [1][2] that discuss various simple techniques helpful for debugging and dealing with stack traces. [1] https://eli.thegreenplace.net/2017/notes-on-debugging-clojure-code/ https://eli.thegreenplace.net/2017/notes-on-debugging-clojur... [2] https://cognitect.com/blog/2017/6/5/repl-debugging-no-stacktrace-required https://cognitect.com/blog/2017/6/5/repl-debugging-no-stackt...

rockostrich 5y ago
I've never really had a problem with stack traces in Scala. Every once in a while you hit a cryptic one that's buried in Java library code, but for the most part they're runtime errors that are due to incompletely tested code or some kind of handled error with a very specific message.

alaq 5y ago

How did you make the switch? Were you already working for the same company? Did you already know Clojure, from open source, or side projects?

ivanech 5y ago
I work at Ladder [0], and almost everything is done in Clojure/ClojureScript here. I had no previous experience in Clojure – Ladder ramps you if you haven't used it before. My interview was in Python. We're currently hiring senior engineers, no Clojure experience necessary [1]. [0] https://www.ladderlife.com/ https://www.ladderlife.com/ [1] https://boards.greenhouse.io/ladder33/jobs/2436386 https://boards.greenhouse.io/ladder33/jobs/2436386
- marciol 5y ago
  Remote from everywhere or only in USA?
  - alaq 5y ago
    Looks like the remote situation is only temporary. From their website [0]: "On returning to our office in Palo Alto, California At the moment, our employees are currently living and working all over the country. When it’s safe to gather again, we fully intend to return to the office." [0] https://www.ladderlife.com/careers https://www.ladderlife.com/careers
- alaq 5y ago
  This is great to hear that Clojure experience is not a requirement! Thank you for sharing. I am based in NY and not willing to relocate, so I will look into NY/remote companies :)