6 ms·

IT all depends on how, where and when does this malware run. If they can be installed along with the games under a gaming only account on the Linux machine, tha

IT all depends on how, where and when does this malware run. If they can be installed along with the games under a gaming only account on the Linux machine, that is, with zero permissions on system and other users files around, that's fine with me. However if they require to pollute system directories or, much worse, be installed as kernel modules or system level daemons, then it's way different. Security conscious gamers would probably put their gaming machine behind a firewall that screens their entire LAN (other hardware, NAS etc), and forget doing anything but gaming with it.

gentleman11 5y ago
The malware you’re describing would never be used. The designers of this stuff run it at ring zero on Windows with unlimited permissions and zero transparency
matheusmoreira 5y ago
> If they can be installed along with the games under a gaming only account on the Linux machine, that is, with zero permissions on system and other users files around, that's fine with me. Completely ineffective. It will be trivial to circumvent those protections. Might as well not bother. The truth is cheaters are merely excersising their computing freedom. It's my computer, the game is merely running on it. If I want to read the game's memory and adjust aim or automate boring parts, it's my prerogative. In order to prevent any of this, the game company must take over my machine. They must literally own my computer. Anti-cheating software is virtually indistinguishable from malware and there is no situation where this is acceptable. The game company's "needs" are irrelevant.
- zaarn 5y ago
  And the needs of other players to have a fair game are also irrelevant then? After all, you're the top rank in CS:GO not because of your skill but because you simply exercise your freedom to have everyone else play against your computer.
  - matheusmoreira 5y ago
    Correct, they're completely irrelevant. Of all the affronts to computing freedom, anti-cheating is the worst. The truth is the online gaming model where we play with untrustworthy strangers is completely broken. We should all be playing with friends we can trust instead.
    - tracedddd 5y ago
      I wouldn’t install anti-cheat malware personally, but I think many of the people who want to play these games care more about not having cheaters in their games than having ring 0 control. They’re extremely passionate about their skills and want nothing more than a fair playing field. Playing only with friends is not a real solution. Computing freedom means you have the freedom to give up control, too. It’s your choice.
      - matheusmoreira 5y ago
        > Computing freedom means you have the freedom to give up control, too. It’s your choice. Absolutely. As long as they don't force this malware on the rest of us who do care, it will be fine.
    - feanaro 5y ago
      Completely agreed. Where is this "right not to be cheated in an online game" coming from anyway? Sounds absurd when you put it in proper terms, that is someone else taking control over your computer.
      - matheusmoreira 5y ago
        > Where is this "right not to be cheated in an online game" coming from anyway? No idea. Who cares if some random guy cheats really? It's nothing compared to losing our computing freedom. Actual important stuff that matters. Same fundamental issue as DRM which nearly everyone agrees is bad. Our computers are ours and game companies just need to deal with it. If people are gonna cheat, then so be it.
- AlphaSite 5y ago
  I think there is an underlying assumption that you’re entitled to play the game, therefor anti cheat is violating your freedoms. But if we remove the assumption that you are entitled to play any game how ever you please i think this argument somewhat falls apart. If you don’t like their using anti cheat, then just don’t play those games which use it. I just don’t think enough people agree with you that it will work in your favour unfortunately.
  - matheusmoreira 5y ago
    It's not entitlement to want to play the games I paid money for without my computer getting owned. This is basic respect, not some insane notion. Why are game companies entitled to complete control over our computers?
    - yissp 5y ago
      Then don't give these companies your business. I certainly don't. There are enough games that don't pull this kind of shit to keep me entertained.
      - matheusmoreira 5y ago
        True. Nowadays I play single player games because of this. I simply can't trust these companies. The situation should never have gotten to this point.
    - samtheDamned 5y ago
      It depends on if you're talking about single player or multiplayer. Notably EAC and battleye are both only really used on multiplayer based games. Cheating on those games isn't "exercising your rights" because you aren't entitled to ruining others experience. Multiplayer is more than a simple "buy and own everything inside" experience because you are buying the ability to use their servers according to their rules and TOS. I support requiring the ability to run your own server without anticheat and full ownership and ability on those but you don't have the right to abuse multiplayer services just because you bought a license to play it.
- k12sosse 5y ago
  Not that I disagree but if you accept the EULA that states otherwise, doesn't that mean you don't have the prerogative? It sounds like you want to skip over the EULA, isn't respecting licensing models a huge thing for Linuxheads? Honest question.
  - matheusmoreira 5y ago
    > doesn't that mean you don't have the prerogative? It means I've agreed not to cheat. I have the power to do it, I just agreed not to use it. I won't let them take my power away though. > isn't respecting licensing models a huge thing for Linuxheads? Personally I'm not a fan of intellectual property in general. Licenses included. They all depend on copyright which should be abolished. The only thing that makes any sense to me is the boundary between my computer and their servers. I should be able to do whatever I want on my computer. They should be able to do whatever they want on their servers. If they can't detect cheating server side, that's just too bad because they aren't gonna be doing it on my machine.
    - DynamicStatic 5y ago
      A lot of cheating just can't realistically be detected on the server. Feel free to not play those games that requires anti cheats and let the ones of us who likes having it enjoy a game with less cheaters.
  - lobocinza 5y ago
    Nobody read EULAs.

gentleman11 5y ago

The malware you’re describing would never be used. The designers of this stuff run it at ring zero on Windows with unlimited permissions and zero transparency

matheusmoreira 5y ago

> If they can be installed along with the games under a gaming only account on the Linux machine, that is, with zero permissions on system and other users files around, that's fine with me. Completely ineffective. It will be trivial to circumvent those protections. Might as well not bother. The truth is cheaters are merely excersising their computing freedom. It's my computer, the game is merely running on it. If I want to read the game's memory and adjust aim or automate boring parts, it's my prerogative. In order to prevent any of this, the game company must take over my machine. They must literally own my computer. Anti-cheating software is virtually indistinguishable from malware and there is no situation where this is acceptable. The game company's "needs" are irrelevant.

zaarn 5y ago
And the needs of other players to have a fair game are also irrelevant then? After all, you're the top rank in CS:GO not because of your skill but because you simply exercise your freedom to have everyone else play against your computer.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  Correct, they're completely irrelevant. Of all the affronts to computing freedom, anti-cheating is the worst. The truth is the online gaming model where we play with untrustworthy strangers is completely broken. We should all be playing with friends we can trust instead.
  - tracedddd 5y ago
    I wouldn’t install anti-cheat malware personally, but I think many of the people who want to play these games care more about not having cheaters in their games than having ring 0 control. They’re extremely passionate about their skills and want nothing more than a fair playing field. Playing only with friends is not a real solution. Computing freedom means you have the freedom to give up control, too. It’s your choice.
    - matheusmoreira 5y ago
      > Computing freedom means you have the freedom to give up control, too. It’s your choice. Absolutely. As long as they don't force this malware on the rest of us who do care, it will be fine.
  - feanaro 5y ago
    Completely agreed. Where is this "right not to be cheated in an online game" coming from anyway? Sounds absurd when you put it in proper terms, that is someone else taking control over your computer.
    - matheusmoreira 5y ago
      > Where is this "right not to be cheated in an online game" coming from anyway? No idea. Who cares if some random guy cheats really? It's nothing compared to losing our computing freedom. Actual important stuff that matters. Same fundamental issue as DRM which nearly everyone agrees is bad. Our computers are ours and game companies just need to deal with it. If people are gonna cheat, then so be it.
AlphaSite 5y ago
I think there is an underlying assumption that you’re entitled to play the game, therefor anti cheat is violating your freedoms. But if we remove the assumption that you are entitled to play any game how ever you please i think this argument somewhat falls apart. If you don’t like their using anti cheat, then just don’t play those games which use it. I just don’t think enough people agree with you that it will work in your favour unfortunately.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  It's not entitlement to want to play the games I paid money for without my computer getting owned. This is basic respect, not some insane notion. Why are game companies entitled to complete control over our computers?
  - yissp 5y ago
    Then don't give these companies your business. I certainly don't. There are enough games that don't pull this kind of shit to keep me entertained.
    - matheusmoreira 5y ago
      True. Nowadays I play single player games because of this. I simply can't trust these companies. The situation should never have gotten to this point.
  - samtheDamned 5y ago
    It depends on if you're talking about single player or multiplayer. Notably EAC and battleye are both only really used on multiplayer based games. Cheating on those games isn't "exercising your rights" because you aren't entitled to ruining others experience. Multiplayer is more than a simple "buy and own everything inside" experience because you are buying the ability to use their servers according to their rules and TOS. I support requiring the ability to run your own server without anticheat and full ownership and ability on those but you don't have the right to abuse multiplayer services just because you bought a license to play it.
k12sosse 5y ago
Not that I disagree but if you accept the EULA that states otherwise, doesn't that mean you don't have the prerogative? It sounds like you want to skip over the EULA, isn't respecting licensing models a huge thing for Linuxheads? Honest question.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  > doesn't that mean you don't have the prerogative? It means I've agreed not to cheat. I have the power to do it, I just agreed not to use it. I won't let them take my power away though. > isn't respecting licensing models a huge thing for Linuxheads? Personally I'm not a fan of intellectual property in general. Licenses included. They all depend on copyright which should be abolished. The only thing that makes any sense to me is the boundary between my computer and their servers. I should be able to do whatever I want on my computer. They should be able to do whatever they want on their servers. If they can't detect cheating server side, that's just too bad because they aren't gonna be doing it on my machine.
  - DynamicStatic 5y ago
    A lot of cheating just can't realistically be detected on the server. Feel free to not play those games that requires anti cheats and let the ones of us who likes having it enjoy a game with less cheaters.
- lobocinza 5y ago
  Nobody read EULAs.