10 ms·

If Home Depot could somehow extend this anti-theft protection to the original purchaser, that would be a huge positive to customer experience. Tool theft at job

by dtjb 5y ago

If Home Depot could somehow extend this anti-theft protection to the original purchaser, that would be a huge positive to customer experience. Tool theft at job sites is a massive problem, especially because most workers are responsible for providing their own tools.

ianhawes 5y ago
This. I was excited seeing the headline, but disappointed it only applied to purchasing from Home Depot.
giantg2 5y ago
The easiest way would be to implement the smart gun tech for tools. Keep the paired bracelet at the counter, then the user can wear it when using it. If the bracelet isn't in range, then the tool won't work. I'm guessing people wouldn't be very happy with this user experience though. Cost for biometric implementation would likely be cost prohibitive.
- fuzzer37 5y ago
  why does it have to be biometric at all? Just make it 2FA. Make it so that the bracelet and the tool have to be within, say, 1m of each other and that seems like a viable solution (And obviously have the ability to disable this feature if the user wishes)
  - giantg2 5y ago
    "(And obviously have the ability to disable this feature if the user wishes)" True, that didn't really come to mind since they don't generally talk about allowing that for guns. The best thing is probably using one's phone as the token since the phone has bluetooth and this article mentions that the tools are unlocked with that. The reason I brought up biometrics is that the unlocking 'token' is less likely to get lost than the bracelet, etc. But that does bring up another good point, that some of the common biometrics like fingerprints wouldn't work since many people wear work gloves. Although, it would provide a good large-scale proof of concept for smart gun tech if it worked the same as the proposed smart gun tech.
    - JKCalhoun 5y ago
      "Lost my phone and now I can't use my power tools...." — Future internet of shit post
      - giantg2 5y ago
        Not if it's using an app that stores the info in some manufacturers database (just imagine the marketing goldmine of tracking users usage).
        yencabulator 5y ago
        "The manufacturers website is down and now I can't use my power tools...." — Future internet of shit post
- ggreer 5y ago
  I don't think a smart gun has ever been sold to consumers in the US. The technology simply isn't reliable enough to be useful. The one model that a company did try to market was so expensive and unreliable[1] that no store imported it. Also people were worried about the built-in kill switch. 1. https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2014/8/8/whats-so-smart-about-this-gun/ https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2014/8/8/whats-s...
EvanAnderson 5y ago
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Power tool DRM would, inevitably, be used in an anti-consumer fashion.
- eurasiantiger 5y ago
  Looks like Right to Repair has a loophole :-)
- whymauri 5y ago
  "Firmware Error: this Ryobi drill will automatically turn off and stay off until security patch 11.045. Please connect to a stable Internet connection and set up your Home Depot Builders(TM) account to use your drill." Watch pre-DRM and 'jailbroken' power tools become highly sought after, lol.
  - spartas 5y ago
    Yup. Just watch what happens when the tools reach end-of-life. No more security patches and they will stop working, like all of those early smart TV apps that have been unsupported for years. You could buy a third-party manufacturer's tools because they're cheaper, but when they can't keep the lights on and they shut off the authentication servers, well you're SOL
  - baybal2 5y ago
    Sounds laughable, but I'm already on, I think, 5th such "Product as a Service" contraption, and refused a 6th one because of client's business model been extremely unethical, and borderline fraud: A WiFi MP3 player with "unlimited music through life" and few paid premium tracks, which the client planned to suddenly switch into not so unlimited, and subscription only in the course of 2-3 years through the power of fine print, and legalese. Bait, and switch. Stuff like DRMed consumables for water filters, coffee machine capsules, subscription only air fresheners, and DRMed packed fresh food! is already a reality. And if you don't believe about microchipped, DRMed food, here it is: https://ibb.co/b65kHfY https://ibb.co/b65kHfY https://ibb.co/19L9fw3 https://ibb.co/19L9fw3 https://ibb.co/bvD7NcJ https://ibb.co/bvD7NcJ
marcus0x62 5y ago
The toolmakers have already done this: https://onekeysupport.milwaukeetool.com/en/knowledge/ios-tool-lockout https://onekeysupport.milwaukeetool.com/en/knowledge/ios-too...
- moftz 5y ago
  That's a neat system. Looks like it works by allowing any phone with the Milwaukee app to identify a nearby tracked tool regardless of who actually owns it. You'd really only be able to keep using a stolen tool as long as the lock-out time is still active and no one with the app comes in range. I wonder if they are able to integrate it with Apple Airtags to at least provide location data.
flareback 5y ago
Future Headline "Construction halted across US as hackers prevent power tool usage"
alistairSH 5y ago
Honest question - where do professional tradesmen buy their tools? Mechanics (auto, airline) don't normally go to HD or Lowes - they buy from SnapOn, Cromwell, or Mac - all three send salespeople in large box trucks full of tools to work site. And all three offer credit and payment plans. And when tools break, those trucks come by with replacements.
- wastedhours 5y ago
  Depends on the tool and the usecase - our contractors always had proper pro-level drills and powertools, but their handtools (especially more consumable ones that get lost during day to days when they're mobile, like screwdrivers and stuff) looked to be from DIY stores.
- reportingsjr 5y ago
  My brother and father are high end renovation carpenter's, as far as I'm aware they typically get tools at Home Depot or similar places.
- namelessoracle 5y ago
  When tools break and they need them today (because the job needs to be finished today because there isnt time on the schedule next week to go back to this job site, also most customers get upset if you leave their home in a state of disrepair....), they DO go to HD or Lowes.
- 0xffff2 5y ago
  I can't speak for other trades, but I have enough experience doing carpentry (mostly on the side, but paid) to say that Home Depot/Lowes/Local equivalent building supply stores are where carpenters and general contractors buy their tools, or at least that we're buying the same models that are available at Home Depot regardless of source.
  - alistairSH 5y ago
    Interesting. In my limited experience with pneumatic tools, SnapOn is much higher quality than the brands available at big box stores. Probably not worth it for typical homeowners, but my old roommate ran a SnapOn truck.
caf 5y ago
Reading the headline, that's actually what I thought it was going to be.
nimbius 5y ago
i wrench in a shop all day long, and let me tell you what works. Pink tools. My pocket knife is hot pink, my socket wrenches are dipped pink, and most of my powertools have a flair of pink somewhere from a can of Krylon. Pink is natures danger color for the average nail swatter pounding monster energy and fried cake from the 7-11 at 4 AM. my job boxes are covered in unicorn stickers and rainbows.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  That only works because the people who'd steal your tools would steal them to use themselves. There's a reason every large facility that provides its own tools has a tool crib where they track who checked out what.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    And not just the tools, also the consumables. Endmills and such grow little legs as soon as they're out of the central depot. And that stuff really adds up.
- brk 5y ago
  I used to do a lot of product demos that involved network equipment. All the patch cables I carried were either pink or purple. They were never confused with customer cables, and I do not ever recall one of them being stolen.
- analog31 5y ago
  I'm a musician. I make my own cables, all green.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  I’ve heard that pink cars are the least likely to be stolen.
sethammons 5y ago
That's what I thought the title was referring to and my initial thought was it would be brilliant to "lojack" your power tools.
moftz 5y ago
My Makita batteries have an anti-theft feature built-in that offers a way to disable the battery after a certain date or number of hours or days. You have to plug the battery back into a special terminal to "recharge" the day or hour timer or to set a new lockout with a PIN. It comes with warning stickers you can put on your batteries. The system is mostly just meant to prevent workers from borrowing equipment for weekend side jobs or keeping batteries after the job is finished. It doesn't actually stop someone from stealing them (or even the tool the battery goes with) but hopefully they read the sticker and realize that it's not worth stealing what will soon be a worthless battery. I've never used this feature but it's a neat system. Sometimes the tools themselves have anti-theft tags inside that will set off sensors but I don't know if anyone actually uses that outside of the store you bought the tool from.
- toxik 5y ago
  I’m pretty sure you can just open the battery pack up and disconnect whatever circuit lives in there. The batteries are just packs of chemicals.
  - snypher 5y ago
    Maybe some time ago. Now the tool+battery has handshakes and all that; https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/products/power/battery-management/DS2703.html https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/products/power/battery-ma...
    - nebula8804 5y ago
      I have read about the coming cryptographically signed video cameras to prevent deep fakes. Now we have have signed battery packs. I can't wait to solder in mod-chips into my batteries like the good old days of game consoles. It has become a lot of fun to strip DRM from anything I own. This feeling of freedom that I have that most consumers don't is exhilarating and sad at the same time. We are still in the "good old days" where we can still choose to live most of life without DRM but I know the end will be coming one day. I guess I can prolong it by maintaining my good makita tools, keep my N64 in tip top shape and take good care of whatever else I think will be DRM'ed in the future.
soneil 5y ago
I was actually relieved to find the opposite, that this only concerns the store until it goes out of the door. There was a story the other day that Office 2010 was no longer activating in some regions because the activation servers just aren't there anymore. The downside of having an iphone-esque "activation lock" is that you could be left with a 10yo drill that isn't permitted to turn on because the activation servers have been abandoned - and any sensible workaround negates its use as a theft deterrent.

by dtjb 5y ago

ianhawes 5y ago

This. I was excited seeing the headline, but disappointed it only applied to purchasing from Home Depot.

giantg2 5y ago

The easiest way would be to implement the smart gun tech for tools. Keep the paired bracelet at the counter, then the user can wear it when using it. If the bracelet isn't in range, then the tool won't work. I'm guessing people wouldn't be very happy with this user experience though. Cost for biometric implementation would likely be cost prohibitive.

fuzzer37 5y ago
why does it have to be biometric at all? Just make it 2FA. Make it so that the bracelet and the tool have to be within, say, 1m of each other and that seems like a viable solution (And obviously have the ability to disable this feature if the user wishes)
- giantg2 5y ago
  "(And obviously have the ability to disable this feature if the user wishes)" True, that didn't really come to mind since they don't generally talk about allowing that for guns. The best thing is probably using one's phone as the token since the phone has bluetooth and this article mentions that the tools are unlocked with that. The reason I brought up biometrics is that the unlocking 'token' is less likely to get lost than the bracelet, etc. But that does bring up another good point, that some of the common biometrics like fingerprints wouldn't work since many people wear work gloves. Although, it would provide a good large-scale proof of concept for smart gun tech if it worked the same as the proposed smart gun tech.
  - JKCalhoun 5y ago
    "Lost my phone and now I can't use my power tools...." — Future internet of shit post
    - giantg2 5y ago
      Not if it's using an app that stores the info in some manufacturers database (just imagine the marketing goldmine of tracking users usage).
      - yencabulator 5y ago
        "The manufacturers website is down and now I can't use my power tools...." — Future internet of shit post
ggreer 5y ago
I don't think a smart gun has ever been sold to consumers in the US. The technology simply isn't reliable enough to be useful. The one model that a company did try to market was so expensive and unreliable[1] that no store imported it. Also people were worried about the built-in kill switch. 1. https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2014/8/8/whats-so-smart-about-this-gun/ https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2014/8/8/whats-s...

EvanAnderson 5y ago

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Power tool DRM would, inevitably, be used in an anti-consumer fashion.

eurasiantiger 5y ago
Looks like Right to Repair has a loophole :-)
whymauri 5y ago
"Firmware Error: this Ryobi drill will automatically turn off and stay off until security patch 11.045. Please connect to a stable Internet connection and set up your Home Depot Builders(TM) account to use your drill." Watch pre-DRM and 'jailbroken' power tools become highly sought after, lol.
- spartas 5y ago
  Yup. Just watch what happens when the tools reach end-of-life. No more security patches and they will stop working, like all of those early smart TV apps that have been unsupported for years. You could buy a third-party manufacturer's tools because they're cheaper, but when they can't keep the lights on and they shut off the authentication servers, well you're SOL
- baybal2 5y ago
  Sounds laughable, but I'm already on, I think, 5th such "Product as a Service" contraption, and refused a 6th one because of client's business model been extremely unethical, and borderline fraud: A WiFi MP3 player with "unlimited music through life" and few paid premium tracks, which the client planned to suddenly switch into not so unlimited, and subscription only in the course of 2-3 years through the power of fine print, and legalese. Bait, and switch. Stuff like DRMed consumables for water filters, coffee machine capsules, subscription only air fresheners, and DRMed packed fresh food! is already a reality. And if you don't believe about microchipped, DRMed food, here it is: https://ibb.co/b65kHfY https://ibb.co/b65kHfY https://ibb.co/19L9fw3 https://ibb.co/19L9fw3 https://ibb.co/bvD7NcJ https://ibb.co/bvD7NcJ

marcus0x62 5y ago

The toolmakers have already done this: https://onekeysupport.milwaukeetool.com/en/knowledge/ios-tool-lockout https://onekeysupport.milwaukeetool.com/en/knowledge/ios-too...

moftz 5y ago
That's a neat system. Looks like it works by allowing any phone with the Milwaukee app to identify a nearby tracked tool regardless of who actually owns it. You'd really only be able to keep using a stolen tool as long as the lock-out time is still active and no one with the app comes in range. I wonder if they are able to integrate it with Apple Airtags to at least provide location data.

flareback 5y ago

Future Headline "Construction halted across US as hackers prevent power tool usage"

alistairSH 5y ago

Honest question - where do professional tradesmen buy their tools? Mechanics (auto, airline) don't normally go to HD or Lowes - they buy from SnapOn, Cromwell, or Mac - all three send salespeople in large box trucks full of tools to work site. And all three offer credit and payment plans. And when tools break, those trucks come by with replacements.

wastedhours 5y ago
Depends on the tool and the usecase - our contractors always had proper pro-level drills and powertools, but their handtools (especially more consumable ones that get lost during day to days when they're mobile, like screwdrivers and stuff) looked to be from DIY stores.
reportingsjr 5y ago
My brother and father are high end renovation carpenter's, as far as I'm aware they typically get tools at Home Depot or similar places.
namelessoracle 5y ago
When tools break and they need them today (because the job needs to be finished today because there isnt time on the schedule next week to go back to this job site, also most customers get upset if you leave their home in a state of disrepair....), they DO go to HD or Lowes.
0xffff2 5y ago
I can't speak for other trades, but I have enough experience doing carpentry (mostly on the side, but paid) to say that Home Depot/Lowes/Local equivalent building supply stores are where carpenters and general contractors buy their tools, or at least that we're buying the same models that are available at Home Depot regardless of source.
- alistairSH 5y ago
  Interesting. In my limited experience with pneumatic tools, SnapOn is much higher quality than the brands available at big box stores. Probably not worth it for typical homeowners, but my old roommate ran a SnapOn truck.

caf 5y ago

Reading the headline, that's actually what I thought it was going to be.

nimbius 5y ago

i wrench in a shop all day long, and let me tell you what works. Pink tools. My pocket knife is hot pink, my socket wrenches are dipped pink, and most of my powertools have a flair of pink somewhere from a can of Krylon. Pink is natures danger color for the average nail swatter pounding monster energy and fried cake from the 7-11 at 4 AM. my job boxes are covered in unicorn stickers and rainbows.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
That only works because the people who'd steal your tools would steal them to use themselves. There's a reason every large facility that provides its own tools has a tool crib where they track who checked out what.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  And not just the tools, also the consumables. Endmills and such grow little legs as soon as they're out of the central depot. And that stuff really adds up.
brk 5y ago
I used to do a lot of product demos that involved network equipment. All the patch cables I carried were either pink or purple. They were never confused with customer cables, and I do not ever recall one of them being stolen.
analog31 5y ago
I'm a musician. I make my own cables, all green.
tonyedgecombe 5y ago
I’ve heard that pink cars are the least likely to be stolen.

sethammons 5y ago

That's what I thought the title was referring to and my initial thought was it would be brilliant to "lojack" your power tools.

moftz 5y ago

My Makita batteries have an anti-theft feature built-in that offers a way to disable the battery after a certain date or number of hours or days. You have to plug the battery back into a special terminal to "recharge" the day or hour timer or to set a new lockout with a PIN. It comes with warning stickers you can put on your batteries. The system is mostly just meant to prevent workers from borrowing equipment for weekend side jobs or keeping batteries after the job is finished. It doesn't actually stop someone from stealing them (or even the tool the battery goes with) but hopefully they read the sticker and realize that it's not worth stealing what will soon be a worthless battery. I've never used this feature but it's a neat system. Sometimes the tools themselves have anti-theft tags inside that will set off sensors but I don't know if anyone actually uses that outside of the store you bought the tool from.

toxik 5y ago
I’m pretty sure you can just open the battery pack up and disconnect whatever circuit lives in there. The batteries are just packs of chemicals.
- snypher 5y ago
  Maybe some time ago. Now the tool+battery has handshakes and all that; https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/products/power/battery-management/DS2703.html https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/products/power/battery-ma...
  - nebula8804 5y ago
    I have read about the coming cryptographically signed video cameras to prevent deep fakes. Now we have have signed battery packs. I can't wait to solder in mod-chips into my batteries like the good old days of game consoles. It has become a lot of fun to strip DRM from anything I own. This feeling of freedom that I have that most consumers don't is exhilarating and sad at the same time. We are still in the "good old days" where we can still choose to live most of life without DRM but I know the end will be coming one day. I guess I can prolong it by maintaining my good makita tools, keep my N64 in tip top shape and take good care of whatever else I think will be DRM'ed in the future.

soneil 5y ago

I was actually relieved to find the opposite, that this only concerns the store until it goes out of the door. There was a story the other day that Office 2010 was no longer activating in some regions because the activation servers just aren't there anymore. The downside of having an iphone-esque "activation lock" is that you could be left with a 10yo drill that isn't permitted to turn on because the activation servers have been abandoned - and any sensible workaround negates its use as a theft deterrent.