5 ms·

> I wish we had better fire protection against these batteries. Even better, let's work out chemistries that don't have the same level of risk. We already hav

> I wish we had better fire protection against these batteries. Even better, let's work out chemistries that don't have the same level of risk. We already have LFP, which is an order of magnitude less likely to combust. IMO we really shouldn't be using traditional lithium ion batteries for things like grid storage or home batteries where weight isn't a prime consideration. I wouldn't want one in my house, I'd use LFP instead. Or even better, LTO, though it's not as cost effective. If I have to sleep above it...

judge2020 5y ago
If LFP is so good, why isn't it already used? Supply?
- sunstone 5y ago
  The patent portfolio for LFP could be used for free only in China since about 2003. The patents expire everywhere next year.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  It is popular, but it does not have the most well-known battery company in the world standing behind it. Volume EVs in China use LFP, which has the effect of making those cells common and then available cheaply in the rest of the world. So DIYers love them, and there are lots of commercial products that rely on LFP. Tesla doesn't have any incentive at this point to use LFP, they're selling every Powerwall they can make. The people who are buying them aren't price sensitive. The folks who are, buy LFP instead.
  - njarboe 5y ago
    Elon Musk has recently stated that they are going to make a big shift to LFP batteries[1]. On the Tesla's quarterly earnings call last week, he stated that iron based batteries will likely eventually be used for almost all battery applications due to the low cost. Iron is cheap and sourced all over the globe. He said airplanes and ships will probably have to still use Nickel and/or Cobalt (but corrected himself later saying only airplanes will probably need them). [1]https://www.torquenews.com/1/lfp-batteries-pros-and-cons-elon-shifts-some-teslas-lfp https://www.torquenews.com/1/lfp-batteries-pros-and-cons-elo...
    - rootusrootus 5y ago
      That is excellent news! I was doing some research the other day on state-of-the-art and noticed LFP was gaining some ground on power density, getting some love from Tesla is a big win. Future looks bright.

judge2020 5y ago

If LFP is so good, why isn't it already used? Supply?

sunstone 5y ago
The patent portfolio for LFP could be used for free only in China since about 2003. The patents expire everywhere next year.
rootusrootus 5y ago
It is popular, but it does not have the most well-known battery company in the world standing behind it. Volume EVs in China use LFP, which has the effect of making those cells common and then available cheaply in the rest of the world. So DIYers love them, and there are lots of commercial products that rely on LFP. Tesla doesn't have any incentive at this point to use LFP, they're selling every Powerwall they can make. The people who are buying them aren't price sensitive. The folks who are, buy LFP instead.
- njarboe 5y ago
  Elon Musk has recently stated that they are going to make a big shift to LFP batteries[1]. On the Tesla's quarterly earnings call last week, he stated that iron based batteries will likely eventually be used for almost all battery applications due to the low cost. Iron is cheap and sourced all over the globe. He said airplanes and ships will probably have to still use Nickel and/or Cobalt (but corrected himself later saying only airplanes will probably need them). [1]https://www.torquenews.com/1/lfp-batteries-pros-and-cons-elon-shifts-some-teslas-lfp https://www.torquenews.com/1/lfp-batteries-pros-and-cons-elo...
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    That is excellent news! I was doing some research the other day on state-of-the-art and noticed LFP was gaining some ground on power density, getting some love from Tesla is a big win. Future looks bright.