7 ms·

I've heard of the Walgreens issues, the topic, and am not doubting you -- however, i'm curious what is stopping more widespread theft. Given the no-prosecution

I've heard of the Walgreens issues, the topic, and am not doubting you -- however, i'm curious what is stopping more widespread theft. Given the no-prosecution stance, I can even imagine theft-tourism where people come from other cities and states to steal. Recalling NYC in the 1980s, people would even reach arms through and under metal hoods to steal, I could only imagine what happens if it can be done w/o consequence. What is preventing that? Is it human good nature or is there some understanding that blatant/planned cases will indeed be pursued?

newsclues 5y ago
People don’t want to be caught on cellphone cameras stealing, because of shame.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
AlexandrB 5y ago
Consider the possibility that the crime wave is not real but a narrative being spun up to try to get "tough on crime" laws back on the agenda. From: https://www.relevantmagazine.com/current/nation/no-san-francisco-drug-stores-are-not-suffering-from-a-rising-shoplifting-wave/ https://www.relevantmagazine.com/current/nation/no-san-franc... > The San Francisco Police Department is actually seeing a dip in crime in 2021, part of a larger overall downward trend. Property crimes are down nearly 8 percent so far in 2021, and larceny theft — the category of crime that includes shoplifting — is down 14.4 percent.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Kind of hard not to see a dip after how summer of 2020 went. I'll wait to see whether the trend continues.
- salawat 5y ago
  That's an artifact of people no longer reporting theft for inefficacy. Why should one go through the trouble of filing police reports if they aren't/can't do anything about it? Ironically this makes your dip in crime statistics as cooked up a narrative with rhetorical purposes as what you just suggested. Always take data with a grain of salt, and avoid mixing up the map with the territory.
  - Kye 5y ago
    Police don't do anything about it in other states. It's not due to this law. Police steal more than the people they're supposed to catch.
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      When police serve a search warrant for career criminals (e.g. drug dealing, car theft, basically any criminal activity that you can make a decent regular income on) it's SOP to cross-reference serial numbers on expensive stuff that's lying around (power tools, electronics, etc) with the list of serial numbers in their DB of police reports so they can tack on a charge if they get a match. It is absolutely a liability to have a bunch of stolen stuff lying around.
  - AlexandrB 5y ago
    This is moving the goalposts vs. the GP. He claimed it was the DAs not prosecuting that was the problem. Now the police are in on it too and not even arresting suspects? Incidentally, the Walgreens shoplifter was arrested and is facing 16 charges: https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/22/us/shoplifting-san-francisco-walgreens/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/22/us/shoplifting-san-francisco-...
    - haram_masala 5y ago
      Why would the police arrest a suspect if they already know the suspect won't be prosecuted That's what's really happening here.
    - djrogers 5y ago
- edgyquant 5y ago
  Just because crime isn’t increasing doesn’t mean it’s not a problem. We have no benchmark to compare 2019, 2020 and 2021 against and it may be dipping but 2020 likely saw a spike in crime so going down from there isn’t saying much.
  - ZanyProgrammer 5y ago
    It literally isn't a problem then. Otherwise you're just trying to spin a narrative that doesn't line up with facts.
    - edgyquant 5y ago
      Again, something can be a problem without growing into a bigger problem.
  - BoorishBears 5y ago
    First off, no one said crime is not a problem, they're saying it's not a new problem ramping up. So let's fix that bit of putting words in someone's mouth and see why doesn't the logic flow the other way? Just because crime is increasing doesn’t mean it’s a new problem. We have no benchmark to compare 2019, 2020 and 2021 against and it may be dipping but 2020 likely saw a spike in crime so going down from there isn’t saying much. Seems pretty reasonable right?
    - x0x0 5y ago
      There are charts over time available here https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/A-violent-year-Bay-Area-murders-spiked-36-in-15857202.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/A-violent-year-Bay...
      - BoorishBears 5y ago
        The entire point is 2020 was a known anomaly (because of the tiny globe changing pandemic) Hence why their quote is about downward trends in 2021 > The San Francisco Police Department is actually seeing a dip in crime in 2021, part of a larger overall downward trend. Property crimes are down nearly 8 percent so far in 2021, and larceny theft — the category of crime that includes shoplifting — is down 14.4 percent. It's too early to start screaming doom and gloom about crime taking over
- kmlx 5y ago
  didn't san francisco experience covid and lockdowns? as a politician said recently: > we know we locked down not only the general population, but also criminals.
- refurb 5y ago
  I was the victim of a property crime in SF and I never reported it. Why would I? No follow up by police. Same with neighbors. Your stats are reported crime. Not actual crime.
  - BoorishBears 5y ago
    Did that change recently? Prosecution tactics may have changed, to even get to the that point the police have to be willing to investigate. I don't think I've ever seen a big city PD investigate "petty" property crime unless there was something unique about the case, like a gun being involved. So the stats being compared to have the same limitation
    - namelessoracle 5y ago
      Police wont investigate armed robbery with a firearm if there is no body. They may if you hand it to them on a platter (license plate number from getaway vehicle for example) or if there is a string of incidents in a very specific area and time of day. But string of incidents just results in maybe more cops around in that time and place and not a real investigation. And most people who do the armed robbery racket will tell victims to look down and keep their eyes down and respond not pleasantly if you do too much to try and identify them very well. Police dont investigate property crimes unless its someone important enough or has sway gets involved or the media gets involved. Murders they do investigate, because they have incentives to get a clearance rate down. This does mean they dont actually care if you committed the crime, just that it gets "cleared". God help you if you dont have a alibi and your husband/wife end up dead. Expect ALOT of police attention. Rapes will get classified as he said / she said not rapes because that way their clearance/conviction rates stay good. I also find it somewhat odd that people trust what police have to say about crime rates, where they have incentives to make themselves look good, but dont trust police about well anything else these days.
      - BoorishBears 5y ago
        What makes you think they have incentive to make themselves look good? The entire point of the thread is that they have incentive to fan the flames of fear to increase the budgeting. After all, the police aren't nearly as exposed to the effects of angry constituents as elected politicians are. So police love to pitch any sort of crime increase as a failing of budgeting or something
- mrits 5y ago
  Why would anyone report something if they know nothing will be done about it? Even when the DA prosecutes it's still unlikely reporting it will do much good. My car has been broken into twice in the last few months in front of my house. The last thing I want to do is wait for an officer to come by 4 hours later to tell me there isn't anything he can do.
  - spamizbad 5y ago
    Because you'll need a police report to file an insurance claim.
    - mrits 5y ago
      I always wondered who paid for those low deductible plans.

newsclues 5y ago

People don’t want to be caught on cellphone cameras stealing, because of shame.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

AlexandrB 5y ago

Consider the possibility that the crime wave is not real but a narrative being spun up to try to get "tough on crime" laws back on the agenda. From: https://www.relevantmagazine.com/current/nation/no-san-francisco-drug-stores-are-not-suffering-from-a-rising-shoplifting-wave/ https://www.relevantmagazine.com/current/nation/no-san-franc... > The San Francisco Police Department is actually seeing a dip in crime in 2021, part of a larger overall downward trend. Property crimes are down nearly 8 percent so far in 2021, and larceny theft — the category of crime that includes shoplifting — is down 14.4 percent.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
Kind of hard not to see a dip after how summer of 2020 went. I'll wait to see whether the trend continues.
salawat 5y ago
That's an artifact of people no longer reporting theft for inefficacy. Why should one go through the trouble of filing police reports if they aren't/can't do anything about it? Ironically this makes your dip in crime statistics as cooked up a narrative with rhetorical purposes as what you just suggested. Always take data with a grain of salt, and avoid mixing up the map with the territory.
- Kye 5y ago
  Police don't do anything about it in other states. It's not due to this law. Police steal more than the people they're supposed to catch.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    When police serve a search warrant for career criminals (e.g. drug dealing, car theft, basically any criminal activity that you can make a decent regular income on) it's SOP to cross-reference serial numbers on expensive stuff that's lying around (power tools, electronics, etc) with the list of serial numbers in their DB of police reports so they can tack on a charge if they get a match. It is absolutely a liability to have a bunch of stolen stuff lying around.
- AlexandrB 5y ago
  This is moving the goalposts vs. the GP. He claimed it was the DAs not prosecuting that was the problem. Now the police are in on it too and not even arresting suspects? Incidentally, the Walgreens shoplifter was arrested and is facing 16 charges: https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/22/us/shoplifting-san-francisco-walgreens/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/22/us/shoplifting-san-francisco-...
  - haram_masala 5y ago
    Why would the police arrest a suspect if they already know the suspect won't be prosecuted That's what's really happening here.
  - djrogers 5y ago
edgyquant 5y ago
Just because crime isn’t increasing doesn’t mean it’s not a problem. We have no benchmark to compare 2019, 2020 and 2021 against and it may be dipping but 2020 likely saw a spike in crime so going down from there isn’t saying much.
- ZanyProgrammer 5y ago
  It literally isn't a problem then. Otherwise you're just trying to spin a narrative that doesn't line up with facts.
  - edgyquant 5y ago
    Again, something can be a problem without growing into a bigger problem.
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  First off, no one said crime is not a problem, they're saying it's not a new problem ramping up. So let's fix that bit of putting words in someone's mouth and see why doesn't the logic flow the other way? Just because crime is increasing doesn’t mean it’s a new problem. We have no benchmark to compare 2019, 2020 and 2021 against and it may be dipping but 2020 likely saw a spike in crime so going down from there isn’t saying much. Seems pretty reasonable right?
  - x0x0 5y ago
    There are charts over time available here https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/A-violent-year-Bay-Area-murders-spiked-36-in-15857202.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/A-violent-year-Bay...
    - BoorishBears 5y ago
      The entire point is 2020 was a known anomaly (because of the tiny globe changing pandemic) Hence why their quote is about downward trends in 2021 > The San Francisco Police Department is actually seeing a dip in crime in 2021, part of a larger overall downward trend. Property crimes are down nearly 8 percent so far in 2021, and larceny theft — the category of crime that includes shoplifting — is down 14.4 percent. It's too early to start screaming doom and gloom about crime taking over
kmlx 5y ago
didn't san francisco experience covid and lockdowns? as a politician said recently: > we know we locked down not only the general population, but also criminals.
refurb 5y ago
I was the victim of a property crime in SF and I never reported it. Why would I? No follow up by police. Same with neighbors. Your stats are reported crime. Not actual crime.
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  Did that change recently? Prosecution tactics may have changed, to even get to the that point the police have to be willing to investigate. I don't think I've ever seen a big city PD investigate "petty" property crime unless there was something unique about the case, like a gun being involved. So the stats being compared to have the same limitation
  - namelessoracle 5y ago
    Police wont investigate armed robbery with a firearm if there is no body. They may if you hand it to them on a platter (license plate number from getaway vehicle for example) or if there is a string of incidents in a very specific area and time of day. But string of incidents just results in maybe more cops around in that time and place and not a real investigation. And most people who do the armed robbery racket will tell victims to look down and keep their eyes down and respond not pleasantly if you do too much to try and identify them very well. Police dont investigate property crimes unless its someone important enough or has sway gets involved or the media gets involved. Murders they do investigate, because they have incentives to get a clearance rate down. This does mean they dont actually care if you committed the crime, just that it gets "cleared". God help you if you dont have a alibi and your husband/wife end up dead. Expect ALOT of police attention. Rapes will get classified as he said / she said not rapes because that way their clearance/conviction rates stay good. I also find it somewhat odd that people trust what police have to say about crime rates, where they have incentives to make themselves look good, but dont trust police about well anything else these days.
    - BoorishBears 5y ago
      What makes you think they have incentive to make themselves look good? The entire point of the thread is that they have incentive to fan the flames of fear to increase the budgeting. After all, the police aren't nearly as exposed to the effects of angry constituents as elected politicians are. So police love to pitch any sort of crime increase as a failing of budgeting or something
mrits 5y ago
Why would anyone report something if they know nothing will be done about it? Even when the DA prosecutes it's still unlikely reporting it will do much good. My car has been broken into twice in the last few months in front of my house. The last thing I want to do is wait for an officer to come by 4 hours later to tell me there isn't anything he can do.
- spamizbad 5y ago
  Because you'll need a police report to file an insurance claim.
  - mrits 5y ago
    I always wondered who paid for those low deductible plans.