19 ms·

In the bay area and California in general, they've been basically been told that they're on their own regarding thefts. One can simply walk in and take hundre

In the bay area and California in general, they've been basically been told that they're on their own regarding thefts. One can simply walk in and take hundreds of dollars worth of merchandise and leave, because the DA will not prosecute. Security guards won't intervene, and the thieves know all this. It has become a spectacle. Between online sales and this, I sympathize with anyone in brick and mortar retail sales. https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/Prop-47-which-reduced-some-felonies-to-13926211.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/Prop-47-which-reduc... https://news.yahoo.com/looters-ransack-san-francisco-neiman-141600425.html https://news.yahoo.com/looters-ransack-san-francisco-neiman-...

peter422 5y ago
I’ve spent a lot of time at Bay Area Home Depots, and I’ve only seen blatant theft once, and the security guards did attempt to intervene. What is the support for your statement? Also “the DA” is a ton of different people throughout the Bay Area, and the DA that everybody complains about has exactly 0 HDs in his jurisdiction.
- salawat 5y ago
  It was a State level Proposition as far as I am aware, so it isn't merely the case of one problematic DA. I could be misunderstanding something though.
  - beerandt 5y ago
    Statewide laws still rely on local law enforcement and prosecutors to be enforced.
  - tzs 5y ago
    The state level proposition does not require DAs to ignore shoplifting. It just turns it (and a few other crimes) from felonies into misdemeanors when the amount involved does not exceed $950. Misdemeanor shoplifting can still earn up to 180 days in county jail and a fine of up to $1000, but only if a DA prosecutes.
- eplanit 5y ago
  285 murders in San Fran last year, a 35% increase. I didn't witness a single one, but I think they really did happen. https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/A-violent-year-Bay-Area-murders-spiked-36-in-15857202.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/A-violent-year-Bay...
  - dsr_ 5y ago
    London is about the same population as the Bay Area. They had 130 murders, which was about double the per-capita rate for the rest of the UK.
  - distribot 5y ago
    285 murders in the 15 biggest cities of the Bay Area.
AlexandrB 5y ago
This is mostly bullshit. Crime rates in California and SF are comparable to the rest of the country. However there seems to be a concerted effort to push back on any reductions in moronic "tough on crime" policies from the 80s and 90s. Thefts under $1k should be a misdemeanor. How the hell were they ever a felony? In Canada theft under $5k is punishable by a maximum of 2 years in jail (with most people getting a lot less) and retailers seem to be doing ok. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/06/14/bogus-backlash-against-progressive-prosecutors/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/06/14/bogus-bac... Edit: The media seems to be in a real crime frenzy right now. Exhibit A is this bullshit graph that swaps the x axis to make it look like crime is rising: https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/06/24/cnn-chart-crime https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/06/24/cnn-chart-crime
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dimitrios1 5y ago
  > However there seems to be a concerted effort to push back on any reductions in moronic "tough on crime" policies from the 80s and 90s. I'd say. We just elected one of the architects as president.
- evgen 5y ago
  The idea that any relaxation of stiff criminal penalties for small thefts leads to widespread brazen thefts that will soon expand to become a direct threat to suburban white people has now become a right-wing talking point, so you will see it brought up here by the usual suspects on any topic that intersects with retail margins or retail theft. It is a type of story that makes for good clickbait, so it tends to be repeated by people pushing particular agendas.
  - CountDrewku 5y ago
    Theft shouldn't be tolerated from either side. >repeated by people pushing particular agendas The irony.... The agenda seems to be it's ok to steal, commit crime if you're a specific skin color. You're right there is an agenda being pushed. I can't believe people can be so brainwashed that they'll defend crime. I guess you reap what you sow though, just don't push your moronic "acceptance" on the rest of the country. And please for the love of god stay where you are and don't infest other parts of the US with your ridiculousness. If you want to live in a place that supports this by all means do it but don't make the rest of us do it.
TuringNYC 5y ago
I've heard of the Walgreens issues, the topic, and am not doubting you -- however, i'm curious what is stopping more widespread theft. Given the no-prosecution stance, I can even imagine theft-tourism where people come from other cities and states to steal. Recalling NYC in the 1980s, people would even reach arms through and under metal hoods to steal, I could only imagine what happens if it can be done w/o consequence. What is preventing that? Is it human good nature or is there some understanding that blatant/planned cases will indeed be pursued?
- newsclues 5y ago
  People don’t want to be caught on cellphone cameras stealing, because of shame.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- AlexandrB 5y ago
  Consider the possibility that the crime wave is not real but a narrative being spun up to try to get "tough on crime" laws back on the agenda. From: https://www.relevantmagazine.com/current/nation/no-san-francisco-drug-stores-are-not-suffering-from-a-rising-shoplifting-wave/ https://www.relevantmagazine.com/current/nation/no-san-franc... > The San Francisco Police Department is actually seeing a dip in crime in 2021, part of a larger overall downward trend. Property crimes are down nearly 8 percent so far in 2021, and larceny theft — the category of crime that includes shoplifting — is down 14.4 percent.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    Kind of hard not to see a dip after how summer of 2020 went. I'll wait to see whether the trend continues.
  - salawat 5y ago
    That's an artifact of people no longer reporting theft for inefficacy. Why should one go through the trouble of filing police reports if they aren't/can't do anything about it? Ironically this makes your dip in crime statistics as cooked up a narrative with rhetorical purposes as what you just suggested. Always take data with a grain of salt, and avoid mixing up the map with the territory.
Kye 5y ago
This sounds more like a tough-on-crime type fever dream than a representative reality. How much does this actually happen? Is it more of a harm to society than the harsh sentences people were getting for minor thefts? Civilization is a compromise between conflicting interests. Nieman Marcus and Home Depot are still making plenty of profit despite this law changing 7 years ago. Is putting someone in prison for 8 years and giving them a permanent black mark that prevents them from voting and harms employment prospects over $200 really worth improving Home Depot's bottom line? That's the real question here.
adolph 5y ago
> Security guards won't intervene Weird. Makes me wonder why the guards exist.
- EvanAnderson 5y ago
  I think private security is mostly for deterrence / theatre.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    There's definitely a large theater aspect but they also act as professional witnesses so to speak. They're trained to look for and record a suspect's characteristics that a lay person might not notice. A lay person might get you a description like "the big dude with long hair who got into a silver car" whereas a security guard will (should) get you a fairly precise height and weight as well as a plate number and the fact that the dude had a subtle tatoo on his wrist.
    - EvanAnderson 5y ago
      That's really reasonable. Thanks for the perspective!
- nemacol 5y ago
  Previous work experience (at a casino in USA). Security existed for customer service, general rule enforcement where it could be done verbally, and to observe and document activities to be used later - like in court or by police. Professional eye witness. Of course there are times hands-on action was taken but the vast majority was no touch communication and de-escalation followed by a whole lot of documentation coordinated with video surveillance.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    +1 If the military, with their training, has trouble calibrating force when interacting with civilians. And if police, with their less but still substantial training, have trouble. ... Then we probably don't want security guards, with even less training, commonly using force. That some of them are ex-military or ex-police is immaterial, because there sure as hell isn't time made in their schedule to keep up to date.
theyellowkid 5y ago
In a world of small margins, it's just another small advantage that goes to Amazon. That all assumes that UPS drivers are honest and that Amazon 'fulfillment' employees get their daily cavity search of course.
- tbihl 5y ago
  And that the delivery vans don't get raided while making deliveries.
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
Are we using Yahoo news to launder Washington Examiner urls now? And why do you claim security guards won't intervene when your own story said they did? Oh dear, I just looked up that authors last 5 headlines: "Sir there's something on your chin": Biden bailed out by staffer for apparent crumb on face Secret service arrest man for jumping fence line at White House Hunter Biden says "f** 'em" to critics of his art sales All Broadway shows to require proof of vaccination for audience members Trump: Bi-partisan Infrastructure Bill will lead to 'massive socialist expansion'

peter422 5y ago

I’ve spent a lot of time at Bay Area Home Depots, and I’ve only seen blatant theft once, and the security guards did attempt to intervene. What is the support for your statement? Also “the DA” is a ton of different people throughout the Bay Area, and the DA that everybody complains about has exactly 0 HDs in his jurisdiction.

salawat 5y ago
It was a State level Proposition as far as I am aware, so it isn't merely the case of one problematic DA. I could be misunderstanding something though.
- beerandt 5y ago
  Statewide laws still rely on local law enforcement and prosecutors to be enforced.
- tzs 5y ago
  The state level proposition does not require DAs to ignore shoplifting. It just turns it (and a few other crimes) from felonies into misdemeanors when the amount involved does not exceed $950. Misdemeanor shoplifting can still earn up to 180 days in county jail and a fine of up to $1000, but only if a DA prosecutes.
eplanit 5y ago
285 murders in San Fran last year, a 35% increase. I didn't witness a single one, but I think they really did happen. https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/A-violent-year-Bay-Area-murders-spiked-36-in-15857202.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/A-violent-year-Bay...
- dsr_ 5y ago
  London is about the same population as the Bay Area. They had 130 murders, which was about double the per-capita rate for the rest of the UK.
- distribot 5y ago
  285 murders in the 15 biggest cities of the Bay Area.

AlexandrB 5y ago

This is mostly bullshit. Crime rates in California and SF are comparable to the rest of the country. However there seems to be a concerted effort to push back on any reductions in moronic "tough on crime" policies from the 80s and 90s. Thefts under $1k should be a misdemeanor. How the hell were they ever a felony? In Canada theft under $5k is punishable by a maximum of 2 years in jail (with most people getting a lot less) and retailers seem to be doing ok. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/06/14/bogus-backlash-against-progressive-prosecutors/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/06/14/bogus-bac... Edit: The media seems to be in a real crime frenzy right now. Exhibit A is this bullshit graph that swaps the x axis to make it look like crime is rising: https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/06/24/cnn-chart-crime https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/06/24/cnn-chart-crime

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dimitrios1 5y ago
> However there seems to be a concerted effort to push back on any reductions in moronic "tough on crime" policies from the 80s and 90s. I'd say. We just elected one of the architects as president.
evgen 5y ago
The idea that any relaxation of stiff criminal penalties for small thefts leads to widespread brazen thefts that will soon expand to become a direct threat to suburban white people has now become a right-wing talking point, so you will see it brought up here by the usual suspects on any topic that intersects with retail margins or retail theft. It is a type of story that makes for good clickbait, so it tends to be repeated by people pushing particular agendas.
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  Theft shouldn't be tolerated from either side. >repeated by people pushing particular agendas The irony.... The agenda seems to be it's ok to steal, commit crime if you're a specific skin color. You're right there is an agenda being pushed. I can't believe people can be so brainwashed that they'll defend crime. I guess you reap what you sow though, just don't push your moronic "acceptance" on the rest of the country. And please for the love of god stay where you are and don't infest other parts of the US with your ridiculousness. If you want to live in a place that supports this by all means do it but don't make the rest of us do it.

TuringNYC 5y ago

I've heard of the Walgreens issues, the topic, and am not doubting you -- however, i'm curious what is stopping more widespread theft. Given the no-prosecution stance, I can even imagine theft-tourism where people come from other cities and states to steal. Recalling NYC in the 1980s, people would even reach arms through and under metal hoods to steal, I could only imagine what happens if it can be done w/o consequence. What is preventing that? Is it human good nature or is there some understanding that blatant/planned cases will indeed be pursued?

newsclues 5y ago
People don’t want to be caught on cellphone cameras stealing, because of shame.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
AlexandrB 5y ago
Consider the possibility that the crime wave is not real but a narrative being spun up to try to get "tough on crime" laws back on the agenda. From: https://www.relevantmagazine.com/current/nation/no-san-francisco-drug-stores-are-not-suffering-from-a-rising-shoplifting-wave/ https://www.relevantmagazine.com/current/nation/no-san-franc... > The San Francisco Police Department is actually seeing a dip in crime in 2021, part of a larger overall downward trend. Property crimes are down nearly 8 percent so far in 2021, and larceny theft — the category of crime that includes shoplifting — is down 14.4 percent.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Kind of hard not to see a dip after how summer of 2020 went. I'll wait to see whether the trend continues.
- salawat 5y ago
  That's an artifact of people no longer reporting theft for inefficacy. Why should one go through the trouble of filing police reports if they aren't/can't do anything about it? Ironically this makes your dip in crime statistics as cooked up a narrative with rhetorical purposes as what you just suggested. Always take data with a grain of salt, and avoid mixing up the map with the territory.

Kye 5y ago

This sounds more like a tough-on-crime type fever dream than a representative reality. How much does this actually happen? Is it more of a harm to society than the harsh sentences people were getting for minor thefts? Civilization is a compromise between conflicting interests. Nieman Marcus and Home Depot are still making plenty of profit despite this law changing 7 years ago. Is putting someone in prison for 8 years and giving them a permanent black mark that prevents them from voting and harms employment prospects over $200 really worth improving Home Depot's bottom line? That's the real question here.

adolph 5y ago

> Security guards won't intervene Weird. Makes me wonder why the guards exist.

EvanAnderson 5y ago
I think private security is mostly for deterrence / theatre.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  There's definitely a large theater aspect but they also act as professional witnesses so to speak. They're trained to look for and record a suspect's characteristics that a lay person might not notice. A lay person might get you a description like "the big dude with long hair who got into a silver car" whereas a security guard will (should) get you a fairly precise height and weight as well as a plate number and the fact that the dude had a subtle tatoo on his wrist.
  - EvanAnderson 5y ago
    That's really reasonable. Thanks for the perspective!
nemacol 5y ago
Previous work experience (at a casino in USA). Security existed for customer service, general rule enforcement where it could be done verbally, and to observe and document activities to be used later - like in court or by police. Professional eye witness. Of course there are times hands-on action was taken but the vast majority was no touch communication and de-escalation followed by a whole lot of documentation coordinated with video surveillance.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  +1 If the military, with their training, has trouble calibrating force when interacting with civilians. And if police, with their less but still substantial training, have trouble. ... Then we probably don't want security guards, with even less training, commonly using force. That some of them are ex-military or ex-police is immaterial, because there sure as hell isn't time made in their schedule to keep up to date.

theyellowkid 5y ago

In a world of small margins, it's just another small advantage that goes to Amazon. That all assumes that UPS drivers are honest and that Amazon 'fulfillment' employees get their daily cavity search of course.

tbihl 5y ago
And that the delivery vans don't get raided while making deliveries.

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

Are we using Yahoo news to launder Washington Examiner urls now? And why do you claim security guards won't intervene when your own story said they did? Oh dear, I just looked up that authors last 5 headlines: "Sir there's something on your chin": Biden bailed out by staffer for apparent crumb on face Secret service arrest man for jumping fence line at White House Hunter Biden says "f** 'em" to critics of his art sales All Broadway shows to require proof of vaccination for audience members Trump: Bi-partisan Infrastructure Bill will lead to 'massive socialist expansion'