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> I get enthusiasm for FOSS, but enthusiasm to the point of delusion I see your point but consider this: 20 years ago you could make the same argument for all

> I get enthusiasm for FOSS, but enthusiasm to the point of delusion I see your point but consider this: 20 years ago you could make the same argument for all aspects of linux, not just gaming. Why use some hobby level OS for serious work when you have Solaris, HP-UX, AIX? Today we have a very usable Linux desktop and pretty much total dominance in the server arena, only because people were at one point "delusionally enthusiastic" about making it work.

pjmlp 5y ago
Only because the owners of Solaris, HP-UX, AIX decided to outsource part of their UNIX development costs to Linux on one side, while others decided they wanted a free beer POSIX implementation to avoid paying for UNIX. Except gaming culture is all about IP, something that FOSS don't seem to grasp on their quest for freedom über alles.
- Tsiklon 5y ago
  Video games are a particularly interesting subsection of software in the context of free software. Broadly speaking video games are an expression of software and multimedia solely to be used for consumption, and intended to be consumed exclusively within the canonical form presented by it’s developer. In that way IP is very important, because often there’s more than just the investment in underlying game engine and third party middleware involved; it’s a combination of artwork, audio, video, bespoke scripting, and architecture, to make a whole work. It could be reasonably argued that those pieces should be aggressively defended to ensure the investment is not wasted as these pieces may be of limited utility outside of the complete whole. I’m certainly all for increased transparency into the inner workings of this package. But it’s an interesting topic and I don’t know enough to even form an opinion on where I think the correct answer lies.
yyyk 5y ago
Propriety Unixes always had very poor CLIs, to the point people would pay the FSF* to get to install GNU utils. No surprise people would flock to the (offering practically better experience) free OSs. * Payment for CDROMs. Net distribution wasn't as common then.
AnonymousPlanet 5y ago
Less than 20 years ago, Windows was the hobby level OS compared to Solaris and AIX. Windows Server 2005 was a complete and utter joke compared to Solaris. The company I worked for in 2006 was moving their Solaris servers to Linux. Windows wasn't an option because it wouldn't even meet the specs in real life.
- teh_klev 5y ago
  I think you may thinking of Windows Server 2003. I also suspect you've never run Windows Server 2003 at enterprise scale either. No operating system is perfect, but Windows 2003 was a reasonably capable workhorse, even in 2003.
  - robertlagrant 5y ago
    My old company made a DIS box (UK gov-specified integration server that would talk to the central Government Gateway) as Java on Solaris in the early noughties, and doing a performance test that one Solaris machine took down the entire Windows-based Government Gateway test environment. Draw your own conclusions :)
    - teh_klev 5y ago
      It's difficult to draw any conclusions without knowing the environments, what's running on them, were they configured properly, etc etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not ideologically bound to any platform, but stuff like this just sounds like another tired old-man Windows vs Linux/Unix pissing contest.
      - robertlagrant 5y ago
        Well, regarding config, it was run by Microsoft, so it's hard to say how well it was set up. It was more of a fun story than anything though. Didn't mean to offend anyone who identifies strongly with MS.
trasz 5y ago
Proprietary Unix systems usually required equally proprietary hardware, which, twenty years ago, was quite a bit more expensive, and also quite a bit slower, than x86. Also, those proprietary systems usually sucked from the usability point of view, due to being business-oriented.

pjmlp 5y ago

Only because the owners of Solaris, HP-UX, AIX decided to outsource part of their UNIX development costs to Linux on one side, while others decided they wanted a free beer POSIX implementation to avoid paying for UNIX. Except gaming culture is all about IP, something that FOSS don't seem to grasp on their quest for freedom über alles.

Tsiklon 5y ago
Video games are a particularly interesting subsection of software in the context of free software. Broadly speaking video games are an expression of software and multimedia solely to be used for consumption, and intended to be consumed exclusively within the canonical form presented by it’s developer. In that way IP is very important, because often there’s more than just the investment in underlying game engine and third party middleware involved; it’s a combination of artwork, audio, video, bespoke scripting, and architecture, to make a whole work. It could be reasonably argued that those pieces should be aggressively defended to ensure the investment is not wasted as these pieces may be of limited utility outside of the complete whole. I’m certainly all for increased transparency into the inner workings of this package. But it’s an interesting topic and I don’t know enough to even form an opinion on where I think the correct answer lies.

yyyk 5y ago

Propriety Unixes always had very poor CLIs, to the point people would pay the FSF* to get to install GNU utils. No surprise people would flock to the (offering practically better experience) free OSs. * Payment for CDROMs. Net distribution wasn't as common then.

AnonymousPlanet 5y ago

Less than 20 years ago, Windows was the hobby level OS compared to Solaris and AIX. Windows Server 2005 was a complete and utter joke compared to Solaris. The company I worked for in 2006 was moving their Solaris servers to Linux. Windows wasn't an option because it wouldn't even meet the specs in real life.

teh_klev 5y ago
I think you may thinking of Windows Server 2003. I also suspect you've never run Windows Server 2003 at enterprise scale either. No operating system is perfect, but Windows 2003 was a reasonably capable workhorse, even in 2003.
- robertlagrant 5y ago
  My old company made a DIS box (UK gov-specified integration server that would talk to the central Government Gateway) as Java on Solaris in the early noughties, and doing a performance test that one Solaris machine took down the entire Windows-based Government Gateway test environment. Draw your own conclusions :)
  - teh_klev 5y ago
    It's difficult to draw any conclusions without knowing the environments, what's running on them, were they configured properly, etc etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not ideologically bound to any platform, but stuff like this just sounds like another tired old-man Windows vs Linux/Unix pissing contest.
    - robertlagrant 5y ago
      Well, regarding config, it was run by Microsoft, so it's hard to say how well it was set up. It was more of a fun story than anything though. Didn't mean to offend anyone who identifies strongly with MS.

trasz 5y ago

Proprietary Unix systems usually required equally proprietary hardware, which, twenty years ago, was quite a bit more expensive, and also quite a bit slower, than x86. Also, those proprietary systems usually sucked from the usability point of view, due to being business-oriented.