9 ms·

Insurance, points, cashback, chargebacks. It's also a one month interest free float of your funds if you pay in full each month, meaning you earn some interest.

by hnick 5y ago

Insurance, points, cashback, chargebacks. It's also a one month interest free float of your funds if you pay in full each month, meaning you earn some interest. I know some debit cards are getting closer to credit cards in these areas but at least when I first got one, they were just plastic cash. You spend it you lose it, the bank won't support you with clawing it back.

ZephyrBlu 5y ago
> Insurance, points, cashback, chargebacks The first 3 don't really seem to exist in relation to CCs in NZ, and wanting/needing to do a chargeback seems unlikely. There are probably mild benefits to me having a CC over a debit card in NZ, but it doesn't seem to be anything like the US.
- InvertedRhodium 5y ago
  They do, although it's not a common feature for a basic credit card - for example, the BNZ Platinum Visa card comes with travel insurance, and you can either earn points or get a 1% cashback, depending on which reward scheme you choose.
  - ZephyrBlu 5y ago
    Your comment inspired me to check out a bunch of other banks to see what the deal is. It seems like a few of them have some perks like travel insurance, cashback or airpoints/reward points, but most of them have no or very tiny perks on their cards. A lot of the airpoints are also locked behind a minimum spend in the first 3 months. For me personally even the "good" cards aren't that great because I just don't spend that much money. Though travel insurance would be nice once the world opens back up.
    - hnick 5y ago
      The better ones do have an annual fee, so also take that into account. But for us while we were travelling more frequently, the flyer points and insurance made it very worthwhile. Chargebacks are useful depending on consumer protection laws. I'd guess in NZ they're less useful like here in Aus, but if you buy from foreign companies it can be a useful stick to wield as otherwise you'd have little legal recourse.
- helsinkiandrew 5y ago
  https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/credit-card-chargebacks https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/credit-card-chargebacks Chargebacks atleast exist in NZ - this is what I mainly use credit cards for - if the company goes bust before delivering (or before you take a holiday etc), or the product isn't as described, or the company starts quibling about their unconditional money-back guarantee - the credit card company will pay (by law)
- didibus 5y ago
  You should check what's the difference if you get frauded. In Canada, with a debit, it's mostly your loss, but credit cards you can make a fraud claim and they will reimburse you. That's my main reason for never using my debit and always using a credit card, to offset the risk of fraud.
- pharmakom 5y ago
  Protection with a credit card is so much better than a debit card. If you prepay for a service that is not delivered, then the credit card company will refund you.
- depereo 5y ago
  In NZ there are some solid benefits to paying with a CC - I generally toss a direct-debit authority to pay it off automatically monthly. I've got reasonable travel insurance protections when I pay with the CC, I get airpoints, and some chargeback options, as well as fraud detection. Additionally, it's been easier and more reliable to set up online payments with a credit card.
  - dalmo3 5y ago
    What's so easier about a cc for online payments vs a regular VISA debit card?
- ElCapitanMarkla 5y ago
  Sure do, I've got those on my NZ CC. Worth it for the travel insurance if you are travelling overseas etc. The points are hand too, usually cash them in for vouchers each christmas.
extraAccount 5y ago
I read about this online, but it seems to be mainly a US only feature. Credit cards in my country have very very little benefits of using them apart from the usual feature of paying a lot and paying it back later. There is very little incentive to get one. Our banks are probably more risk-averse or don't want to bother with partnering with airlines, insurances, etc for points. The principle is also using the bank's money, not your money. So you make a purchase and now you owe the bank. Unless I am very strapped for money or there is an incentive program, I see little use in using one.
Sander_Marechal 5y ago
> Insurance, points, cashback, chargebacks Dutch here. We don't have points or cashback. Purchases are insured with standard bank debit payments as well, as are chargebacks. I do own a credit card but that is purely for the occasional (usually US) webshop that doesn't accept European debit cards, or as a backup payment method on vacation (my debit card once broke on vacation and my family had to send me money through Western Union)
- bserge 5y ago
  What kind of store doesn't accept "European" debit cards, but accepts credit cards? Visa and MasterCard debit should work anywhere online regardless of origin.
  - Leherenn 5y ago
    Not sure about online stores, but renting a car in the US with a debit card is a pain from experience.
  - JelteF 5y ago
    European (or at least Dutch) debit cards are not Visa or Mastercard. They are either Maestro or V Pay. These cards don't have a 16 digit card number and CVV that you can in online shops and pay with those. This has the advantage that these numbers also cannot be "stolen" and then used by criminals to buy things. Debit cards are really just for physical payment, where you either use contactless payment or by using a PIN. For online shopping, the shops talk to the banks by using an OAuth-like API that can be used to either pay once or set up a monthly payment. There's a few different of these APIs throughout Europe, in each country usually only 1 or 2 are used. Some examples of these APIs are: Bancontact, iDeal, Giropay and Sofort European webshops usually only support the ones in the country that they are located in, and for all others they either support credit card or bank transfers (which are free and standardized within Europe). American webshops usually only support credit cards, so that's the most common reason for people to have one.
    - bserge 5y ago
healsjnr1 5y ago
Points for most people are a zero sum or losing game. I worked for a points loyalty program, and the customer always pays. The bank knows their market well, they know the redemption rate of points for different demographics and they set the annual fees on points earning cards appropriately. For a small number of very diligent points hack customers, the bank loses money on this and the customer wins. For a larger proportion customers get back roughly what they paid in fees. Then for the remainder the points eventually get written off or redeemed for value that is far lower than the fees they paid.
- cheschire 5y ago
  It’s so painless on the Apple Card. Automatic x% back into an Apple Cash account depending on the specifics of the purchase (phone vs card, Apple store vs other store). When you pay off the card, it can automatically debit the Apple Cash account first. Basically all my purchases are 1% cheaper on that card than my other ones. Sure, spending $9,900 instead of $10,000 doesn’t sound like much, but it’s painless free money.
  - smichel17 5y ago
    That "free" money comes from fees paid by the seller to the credit card company, and is passed along to you in the form of higher prices. Unfortunately, paying cash seldom lets you opt out of these credit card driven price increases.
    - blairbeckwith 5y ago
      That last part is what makes "free" vs. "well not actually free" functionally identical.
- xadhominemx 5y ago
  Are you talking about credit card loyalty programs? Because those are definitely not zero sum for consumers as merchants for pay them.
- 0xffff2 5y ago
mrweasel 5y ago
You can do chargebacks on debitcards and you've been able to for at least 20 years. Some banks might ask you to contact a merchant before trying a chargeback, but if you don't get your money back the bank will either do a chargeback or cover the cost (as they do with fraud).
justincormack 5y ago
Most of those things are US only as in most other places the fees are much lower so there is less money to give back. Free float is worth very little when interest rates are about zero. Insurance is a benefit in most places still.

by hnick 5y ago

ZephyrBlu 5y ago

> Insurance, points, cashback, chargebacks The first 3 don't really seem to exist in relation to CCs in NZ, and wanting/needing to do a chargeback seems unlikely. There are probably mild benefits to me having a CC over a debit card in NZ, but it doesn't seem to be anything like the US.

InvertedRhodium 5y ago
They do, although it's not a common feature for a basic credit card - for example, the BNZ Platinum Visa card comes with travel insurance, and you can either earn points or get a 1% cashback, depending on which reward scheme you choose.
- ZephyrBlu 5y ago
  Your comment inspired me to check out a bunch of other banks to see what the deal is. It seems like a few of them have some perks like travel insurance, cashback or airpoints/reward points, but most of them have no or very tiny perks on their cards. A lot of the airpoints are also locked behind a minimum spend in the first 3 months. For me personally even the "good" cards aren't that great because I just don't spend that much money. Though travel insurance would be nice once the world opens back up.
  - hnick 5y ago
    The better ones do have an annual fee, so also take that into account. But for us while we were travelling more frequently, the flyer points and insurance made it very worthwhile. Chargebacks are useful depending on consumer protection laws. I'd guess in NZ they're less useful like here in Aus, but if you buy from foreign companies it can be a useful stick to wield as otherwise you'd have little legal recourse.
helsinkiandrew 5y ago
https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/credit-card-chargebacks https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/credit-card-chargebacks Chargebacks atleast exist in NZ - this is what I mainly use credit cards for - if the company goes bust before delivering (or before you take a holiday etc), or the product isn't as described, or the company starts quibling about their unconditional money-back guarantee - the credit card company will pay (by law)
didibus 5y ago
You should check what's the difference if you get frauded. In Canada, with a debit, it's mostly your loss, but credit cards you can make a fraud claim and they will reimburse you. That's my main reason for never using my debit and always using a credit card, to offset the risk of fraud.
pharmakom 5y ago
Protection with a credit card is so much better than a debit card. If you prepay for a service that is not delivered, then the credit card company will refund you.
depereo 5y ago
In NZ there are some solid benefits to paying with a CC - I generally toss a direct-debit authority to pay it off automatically monthly. I've got reasonable travel insurance protections when I pay with the CC, I get airpoints, and some chargeback options, as well as fraud detection. Additionally, it's been easier and more reliable to set up online payments with a credit card.
- dalmo3 5y ago
  What's so easier about a cc for online payments vs a regular VISA debit card?
ElCapitanMarkla 5y ago
Sure do, I've got those on my NZ CC. Worth it for the travel insurance if you are travelling overseas etc. The points are hand too, usually cash them in for vouchers each christmas.

extraAccount 5y ago

I read about this online, but it seems to be mainly a US only feature. Credit cards in my country have very very little benefits of using them apart from the usual feature of paying a lot and paying it back later. There is very little incentive to get one. Our banks are probably more risk-averse or don't want to bother with partnering with airlines, insurances, etc for points. The principle is also using the bank's money, not your money. So you make a purchase and now you owe the bank. Unless I am very strapped for money or there is an incentive program, I see little use in using one.

Sander_Marechal 5y ago

> Insurance, points, cashback, chargebacks Dutch here. We don't have points or cashback. Purchases are insured with standard bank debit payments as well, as are chargebacks. I do own a credit card but that is purely for the occasional (usually US) webshop that doesn't accept European debit cards, or as a backup payment method on vacation (my debit card once broke on vacation and my family had to send me money through Western Union)

bserge 5y ago
What kind of store doesn't accept "European" debit cards, but accepts credit cards? Visa and MasterCard debit should work anywhere online regardless of origin.
- Leherenn 5y ago
  Not sure about online stores, but renting a car in the US with a debit card is a pain from experience.
- JelteF 5y ago
  European (or at least Dutch) debit cards are not Visa or Mastercard. They are either Maestro or V Pay. These cards don't have a 16 digit card number and CVV that you can in online shops and pay with those. This has the advantage that these numbers also cannot be "stolen" and then used by criminals to buy things. Debit cards are really just for physical payment, where you either use contactless payment or by using a PIN. For online shopping, the shops talk to the banks by using an OAuth-like API that can be used to either pay once or set up a monthly payment. There's a few different of these APIs throughout Europe, in each country usually only 1 or 2 are used. Some examples of these APIs are: Bancontact, iDeal, Giropay and Sofort European webshops usually only support the ones in the country that they are located in, and for all others they either support credit card or bank transfers (which are free and standardized within Europe). American webshops usually only support credit cards, so that's the most common reason for people to have one.
  - bserge 5y ago

healsjnr1 5y ago

Points for most people are a zero sum or losing game. I worked for a points loyalty program, and the customer always pays. The bank knows their market well, they know the redemption rate of points for different demographics and they set the annual fees on points earning cards appropriately. For a small number of very diligent points hack customers, the bank loses money on this and the customer wins. For a larger proportion customers get back roughly what they paid in fees. Then for the remainder the points eventually get written off or redeemed for value that is far lower than the fees they paid.

cheschire 5y ago
It’s so painless on the Apple Card. Automatic x% back into an Apple Cash account depending on the specifics of the purchase (phone vs card, Apple store vs other store). When you pay off the card, it can automatically debit the Apple Cash account first. Basically all my purchases are 1% cheaper on that card than my other ones. Sure, spending $9,900 instead of $10,000 doesn’t sound like much, but it’s painless free money.
- smichel17 5y ago
  That "free" money comes from fees paid by the seller to the credit card company, and is passed along to you in the form of higher prices. Unfortunately, paying cash seldom lets you opt out of these credit card driven price increases.
  - blairbeckwith 5y ago
    That last part is what makes "free" vs. "well not actually free" functionally identical.
xadhominemx 5y ago
Are you talking about credit card loyalty programs? Because those are definitely not zero sum for consumers as merchants for pay them.
0xffff2 5y ago

mrweasel 5y ago

You can do chargebacks on debitcards and you've been able to for at least 20 years. Some banks might ask you to contact a merchant before trying a chargeback, but if you don't get your money back the bank will either do a chargeback or cover the cost (as they do with fraud).

justincormack 5y ago

Most of those things are US only as in most other places the fees are much lower so there is less money to give back. Free float is worth very little when interest rates are about zero. Insurance is a benefit in most places still.