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People are getting less and less willing to deal with bullshit when they're in massive demand and there is a talent shortage in $x industry. And they're finding

People are getting less and less willing to deal with bullshit when they're in massive demand and there is a talent shortage in $x industry. And they're finding out they can move around easily now too in this remote-first world. Something is going to have to change - really a lot of things. One of them is going to be that companies need to learn to figure out how to hire people without putting them through a grind-fest. Figure out how to deal with bad hires after-the-fact, but don't let yourself get screwed not hiring good talent because you made the interview process a giant pain in the ass to catch the crap. Oh and compensation needs to go up to make some of these interview grinds worth it.

onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
Nothing's going to change at FAANG until average, non-FAANG companies can compete on TC (never). I doubt things will change outside of FAANG - because most companies are merely emulating the FAANGs and hoping they emulate the success.
- vmception 5y ago
  > until average, non-FAANG companies can compete on TC (never). And that's the rub. Not only do they struggle to value my skillset, they also can't compensate it accurately. And sadly, FAANGs don't even have the roles in a lot of niches. When you can make 3x what a FAANG would offer, annually, but the companies building in your same niche are too immature and pay 1/3rd of what FAANGs do, its tricky to want to tolerate any of it!
  - CobrastanJorji 5y ago
    I'm not sure I follow. If FAANG companies would offer you 1x, and non-FAANG companies in your area of specialty would offer you x/3, who's paying 3x?
    - vmception 5y ago
      Solo. Right now I can make 3x FAANG comp on a new idea annually without reaching out to my network or needing outside capital. Given how many ways there are to do that and much more, I would like the structure of someone else’s idea to focus (aka being an employee). Doing things solo has overhead costs and liability risks, whereas employment has almost none but half to 3/4ths of your compensation is withheld the whole time. So there is a limit to what comp I’ll accept, given the opportunity costs. Would be great if that comp was FAANG level.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
        You know that it's pretty easy for senior engineers take make >$500k at FAANG atm, right? Can you share some things in the past that were easy money that netted you $1.5M in a year? I'm genuinely curious. I used to have a ton of ideas that I thought if I did everything right I could've maybe made $300-600k. But then you can just get that as a paycheck at FAANG. None of my ideas ever were easy and could realistically generate more than that. Plus there was always a risk they would generate $0.
        vmception 5y ago
        Yes, I am talking about $500k annual vs making at least $1.5 million in a couple of months and doing something else Hm, worst case, people on HN debate an irrelevant understanding of what I say is possible Best case, they copy it en masse and dilute the opportunities faster No thanks I would take $500k doing the same stuff for a tech employer but nobody is offering that right now. Some contracting firms do, kind of, don’t really want hourly though and also want the benefits. I want to focus on someone else's visions, get paid on days off, no risk. Also want a ton of equity I wouldn’t go and purchase myself. Or private equity that I wouldn't have the opportunity of purchasing in addition to an attractive cash compensation. (These are all things I could do in just frontend/fullstack work.) Some smaller companies are going above the 125-150k range, to double that. But not quite and they’re still few and far between.
marto1 5y ago
Consider we've had a labor shortage since BEFORE the pandemic. The gotcha here is companies have a shortage of people they can lowball into a sweatshop "startup" environment. Nothing changed regarding that one as far as I can see so interview processes getting longer isn't all that surprising. After all that's one surefire way to optimize for getting desperate people.

onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago

Nothing's going to change at FAANG until average, non-FAANG companies can compete on TC (never). I doubt things will change outside of FAANG - because most companies are merely emulating the FAANGs and hoping they emulate the success.

vmception 5y ago
> until average, non-FAANG companies can compete on TC (never). And that's the rub. Not only do they struggle to value my skillset, they also can't compensate it accurately. And sadly, FAANGs don't even have the roles in a lot of niches. When you can make 3x what a FAANG would offer, annually, but the companies building in your same niche are too immature and pay 1/3rd of what FAANGs do, its tricky to want to tolerate any of it!
- CobrastanJorji 5y ago
  I'm not sure I follow. If FAANG companies would offer you 1x, and non-FAANG companies in your area of specialty would offer you x/3, who's paying 3x?
  - vmception 5y ago
    Solo. Right now I can make 3x FAANG comp on a new idea annually without reaching out to my network or needing outside capital. Given how many ways there are to do that and much more, I would like the structure of someone else’s idea to focus (aka being an employee). Doing things solo has overhead costs and liability risks, whereas employment has almost none but half to 3/4ths of your compensation is withheld the whole time. So there is a limit to what comp I’ll accept, given the opportunity costs. Would be great if that comp was FAANG level.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
      You know that it's pretty easy for senior engineers take make >$500k at FAANG atm, right? Can you share some things in the past that were easy money that netted you $1.5M in a year? I'm genuinely curious. I used to have a ton of ideas that I thought if I did everything right I could've maybe made $300-600k. But then you can just get that as a paycheck at FAANG. None of my ideas ever were easy and could realistically generate more than that. Plus there was always a risk they would generate $0.
      - vmception 5y ago
        Yes, I am talking about $500k annual vs making at least $1.5 million in a couple of months and doing something else Hm, worst case, people on HN debate an irrelevant understanding of what I say is possible Best case, they copy it en masse and dilute the opportunities faster No thanks I would take $500k doing the same stuff for a tech employer but nobody is offering that right now. Some contracting firms do, kind of, don’t really want hourly though and also want the benefits. I want to focus on someone else's visions, get paid on days off, no risk. Also want a ton of equity I wouldn’t go and purchase myself. Or private equity that I wouldn't have the opportunity of purchasing in addition to an attractive cash compensation. (These are all things I could do in just frontend/fullstack work.) Some smaller companies are going above the 125-150k range, to double that. But not quite and they’re still few and far between.

marto1 5y ago

Consider we've had a labor shortage since BEFORE the pandemic. The gotcha here is companies have a shortage of people they can lowball into a sweatshop "startup" environment. Nothing changed regarding that one as far as I can see so interview processes getting longer isn't all that surprising. After all that's one surefire way to optimize for getting desperate people.