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I hate threads like this, because they tend to degenerate into extremely solipsistic negativity. I'm also pretty circumspect about claims like "the good interne

I hate threads like this, because they tend to degenerate into extremely solipsistic negativity. I'm also pretty circumspect about claims like "the good internet died" which seem to me to reek of unexamined nostalgia. That throat clearing being done, one of the single greatest degradations of the internet I can remember is when The Ringer replaced Grantland.

eachro 5y ago
Just because they were both started by the same guy does not make one a replacement for the other. ESPN ran Grantland into the ground ages before The Ringer was even launched.
- woopwoop 5y ago
  It was less than six months between Grantland shutting down and The Ringer starting, and less than a year between Simmons leaving and The Ringer starting. I was definitely not the only one who hoped The Ringer would continue what Grantland was. I do not have strong feelings about whose "fault" Grantland's failure was. I didn't intend for what I wrote to be an attack on Bill Simmons.
sergiomattei 5y ago
Agreed. Threads like this make me want to quit HN. There's an overwhelming amount of cynicism and negativity on these forums. The indie web is alive and well. The bar to creating awesome products has lowered and indie developers are working on cool shit daily. Go check Product Hunt, Makerlog (disclaimer: I made it), or Twitter. Dozens of indie apps and websites launching every sunrise. The indie open web isn't dead, not by a long shot. It's only got better. A new generation of indie developers are rediscovering what it means to be a small creator online, embracing their communities and building products that put the user's interests first.
- kook_throwaway 5y ago
  Makerlog says you started it in 2018 while in high school, and your age really is showing in this comment. >The indie open web isn't dead, not by a long shot. You can't even use makerlog without a twitter or facebook account. Do I really need to say more? Fact is you created yet another centralized and walled garden, that maybe hopefully won't turn on it's users when VC money comes knocking or whoever the centralized gatekeepers are beholden to (advertisers, governments, media, web hosts, api partners, insiders, business partners, investors, internal politics) says so. The web wasn't always this way. >It's only got better. I'm barred from using your newer better indie web because I refuse voluntarily consent to global-scale social engineering experiments like twitter and facebook. The web wasn't always this way. Your website also has the dark pattern of filling the screen with nothing but 'make an account' when you load the homepage. The web wasn't always this way. Your page takes longer to load on a 1000mbit connection and a top of the line computer than many lightweight pages took to load on dialup... and yours is light years ahead of many other modern websites. The web wasn't always this way. Its making a comeback, for sure, but it's in spite of and parallel to the modern web. There's a lot of crossover with the dweb folks. >The bar to creating awesome products has lowered Agree wholeheartedly. But the modern centralized web is designed to exclude 'indie' products to the maximum extent possible. Edit: I realize my comment comes off harsh, I'm really not trying to shit on your webapp. It looks neat and I love the readily available API, that's something the modern web needs much more of.
  - sergiomattei 5y ago
    > Makerlog says you started it in 2018 while in high school, and your age really is showing in this comment. You could make your point without age-related condescension. Had you not added this part, I'd honestly entered the whole comment much more receptively. > Fact is you created yet another centralized and walled garden That's quite true, you're right. Because it's the only way a one-dude team like me can create a product that solves problems like the one it solves. > You can't even use makerlog without a twitter or facebook account. Do I really need to say more? You can if you send me a message via email asking for a regular account. After all, in this new indie web, there are humans behind the screen that do care about these issues. I've manually created accounts countless times. I'd gladly make one for you! The social login part is a spam prevention measure (and a very effective one, I must say, as I recently closed email signups due to spam). > Your page takes longer to load on a 1000mbit connection and a top of the line computer than many lightweight pages took to load on dialup Yeah, we're not in the 1990s anymore. Cope. Users expect more and products can do better.

eachro 5y ago

Just because they were both started by the same guy does not make one a replacement for the other. ESPN ran Grantland into the ground ages before The Ringer was even launched.

woopwoop 5y ago
It was less than six months between Grantland shutting down and The Ringer starting, and less than a year between Simmons leaving and The Ringer starting. I was definitely not the only one who hoped The Ringer would continue what Grantland was. I do not have strong feelings about whose "fault" Grantland's failure was. I didn't intend for what I wrote to be an attack on Bill Simmons.

sergiomattei 5y ago

Agreed. Threads like this make me want to quit HN. There's an overwhelming amount of cynicism and negativity on these forums. The indie web is alive and well. The bar to creating awesome products has lowered and indie developers are working on cool shit daily. Go check Product Hunt, Makerlog (disclaimer: I made it), or Twitter. Dozens of indie apps and websites launching every sunrise. The indie open web isn't dead, not by a long shot. It's only got better. A new generation of indie developers are rediscovering what it means to be a small creator online, embracing their communities and building products that put the user's interests first.

kook_throwaway 5y ago
Makerlog says you started it in 2018 while in high school, and your age really is showing in this comment. >The indie open web isn't dead, not by a long shot. You can't even use makerlog without a twitter or facebook account. Do I really need to say more? Fact is you created yet another centralized and walled garden, that maybe hopefully won't turn on it's users when VC money comes knocking or whoever the centralized gatekeepers are beholden to (advertisers, governments, media, web hosts, api partners, insiders, business partners, investors, internal politics) says so. The web wasn't always this way. >It's only got better. I'm barred from using your newer better indie web because I refuse voluntarily consent to global-scale social engineering experiments like twitter and facebook. The web wasn't always this way. Your website also has the dark pattern of filling the screen with nothing but 'make an account' when you load the homepage. The web wasn't always this way. Your page takes longer to load on a 1000mbit connection and a top of the line computer than many lightweight pages took to load on dialup... and yours is light years ahead of many other modern websites. The web wasn't always this way. Its making a comeback, for sure, but it's in spite of and parallel to the modern web. There's a lot of crossover with the dweb folks. >The bar to creating awesome products has lowered Agree wholeheartedly. But the modern centralized web is designed to exclude 'indie' products to the maximum extent possible. Edit: I realize my comment comes off harsh, I'm really not trying to shit on your webapp. It looks neat and I love the readily available API, that's something the modern web needs much more of.
- sergiomattei 5y ago
  > Makerlog says you started it in 2018 while in high school, and your age really is showing in this comment. You could make your point without age-related condescension. Had you not added this part, I'd honestly entered the whole comment much more receptively. > Fact is you created yet another centralized and walled garden That's quite true, you're right. Because it's the only way a one-dude team like me can create a product that solves problems like the one it solves. > You can't even use makerlog without a twitter or facebook account. Do I really need to say more? You can if you send me a message via email asking for a regular account. After all, in this new indie web, there are humans behind the screen that do care about these issues. I've manually created accounts countless times. I'd gladly make one for you! The social login part is a spam prevention measure (and a very effective one, I must say, as I recently closed email signups due to spam). > Your page takes longer to load on a 1000mbit connection and a top of the line computer than many lightweight pages took to load on dialup Yeah, we're not in the 1990s anymore. Cope. Users expect more and products can do better.