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It's sad that people would lose their jobs but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. This whole argument is toxic - we can't punish a company for doing unethical t

It's sad that people would lose their jobs but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. This whole argument is toxic - we can't punish a company for doing unethical things because of all the people who rely on them? I reject this argument because providing jobs is not a real defense of anything and it also implies that the corporation's security means job security when many companies will do mass layoffs irrespective of how well they do (Activision being a rather infamous example) to help make revenue figures look better leading up to a review. Kodak are also most likely going to go under regardless unless if they make a real innovative change - and sucking up the CCP is not going to be it considering that market is saturated at this point. The fact that evil empire number 2's actions could arguably less terrible than evil empire number 1 is not a defense. How about both the US and China are responsible for reprehensible things which deserve condemnation? It's gross enough to see US companies bootlicking their own government but it's even more nuasuating seeing them do so to another. It's also objectively even more reprehensible because it is not something that is even necessary for survival compared to not antagonising your own home state. I also completely reject the stance that piracy is theft. Nobody is losing out on anything unless if you believe in the modern delusion that is IP. The fact that occasionally I'm pirating from US and CCP shills is a bonus, not the justification for it. I do not need any justification to pirate. I'm fine with paying for things as well but I'm not under some delusion that the money I'm sending is going to somehow be distributed fairly among the people who actually were responsible for making the production possible. I will and have spent hundreds or thousands when I have the option to send directly to creators, I couldn't give two shits if some parasitic executive would have been able to afford an extra diamond encrusted bidet if only for that last couple of dollars I could have provided him for the privilege of watching a show he didn't make. I only make exceptions for shows that are known to be struggling financially. That's the one case where individual purchases actually have a real impact on the survival of a show or the jobs of the people who do the real work.

deltasixeight 5y ago
> we can't punish a company for doing unethical things because of all the people who rely on them? We live in a globalized world where not only every corporation but every individual has economic ties with China. That means if you want to target China, you need to boycott practically every company in the united states thereby grinding the entire economy to a halt. This has obvious impractical standpoints. >The fact that evil empire number 2's actions could arguably less terrible than evil empire number 1 is not a defense. Defense for what? Nothing is being defended here. The only thing that I am stating is that not only is China an "evil" empire. But so is the US so is practically every country. In fact the better way to put it is, practically every country and every person isn't a saint. Most countries are guilty of something. However due to the rivalry between the West and China, the media over emphasizes China's retaliatory actions towards terrorism. Yes it's wrong. But I can guarantee you, the violent slaughter conducted by the US on the middle east is on a scale far greater than anything China has done; And you didn't boycott any company for this. All companies basically stayed neutral in terms of their political commitment to the war. This is normal, but did you boycott The entire US? No. Your stated behavior and Americas behavior is anything but consistent. Why so much hate for China? It's obvious. Economic Rivalry. China is well on it's way to possibly being technologically and economically superior to the US. That is the driver behind most of the media bias and your own as well. Anyone taking the crown away from the US has to have a bad side. >I also completely reject the stance that piracy is theft. Good. Nothing wrong with this opinion. However piracy does harm software developers, this is irrelevant to the existence of IP. https://www.macgasm.net/news/iphone-news/ios-game-battle-dungeon-forced-to-shut-down-due-to-piracy/ https://www.macgasm.net/news/iphone-news/ios-game-battle-dun... The money from software doesn't just go to pay a CEO's salary. It pays everyones salary and indeed the above link is an example of a company that went bankrupt because people didn't pay to play the game. The software developers lost their jobs. Consequences occur regardless of your outlook on piracy. >This whole argument is toxic - we can't punish a company for doing unethical things because of all the people who rely on them? No this is only toxic to people who see the world in terms of black and white. I'm not saying don't punish a company. I am saying the ethical complexity of the situation is too sophisticated to be solved by just "punishment" alone. Yet we have people like you trying to bend the entire world into a simple game of hammering a nail into a wall. The world isn't a nail, it's a complex diorama made up of millions of pieces and you can't just treat it like a dumb nail. The point of my post is not to say who's right or who's wrong or whether you should punish a company. The point of my post is to illustrate the complexity of the world so that people stop posting stupid ass statements like "Oh I'm gonna boycott Kodak" Like dude get out of the mob mentality, things are NEVER that simple. Not only is the morality of "boycotting" Kodak ambiguous and irrational, but the practical consequence of boycotting Kodak only damages our own country.
- vimacs2 5y ago
  Sorry but I'm not American so this whole whataboutism game doesn't really work on me. I actually think America are in fact the worse of the two when it comes to international activities and by a wide margin. I also do in fact boycott American companies based on their profiteering and support for both the Iraq War and the illegal Israeli settlements. I pretty much avoid all products from the UAE and Saudi Arabia as well for similar reasons. This is a fake dichotomy. I can condemn both China and America because I don't see them as that fundamentally different. Both are capitalistic societies - one with neoliberal leanings and the other with a totalitarian state controlled capitalism. Both are intensely hierarchical and class based societies and neither are democratic to a meaningful capacity. Organisations that derive their stability from a base of exploitation do not deserve to exist and I frankly care more about the plight of the workers in the global south than people being laid off in America or China (which is already beginning to outsource work to African states the same way the US had started to outsource work to China). That's not to say that their plight does not matter but keep in mind that much of the material wealth and stability that the US (and to a lesser extent, China) and even it's working class citizens enjoy was built off the back of the South. I am in agreement that boycotts on their own are largely symbolic gestures but broader economic sanctions do have a history of working, South Africa being the most recent example.

deltasixeight 5y ago

> we can't punish a company for doing unethical things because of all the people who rely on them? We live in a globalized world where not only every corporation but every individual has economic ties with China. That means if you want to target China, you need to boycott practically every company in the united states thereby grinding the entire economy to a halt. This has obvious impractical standpoints. >The fact that evil empire number 2's actions could arguably less terrible than evil empire number 1 is not a defense. Defense for what? Nothing is being defended here. The only thing that I am stating is that not only is China an "evil" empire. But so is the US so is practically every country. In fact the better way to put it is, practically every country and every person isn't a saint. Most countries are guilty of something. However due to the rivalry between the West and China, the media over emphasizes China's retaliatory actions towards terrorism. Yes it's wrong. But I can guarantee you, the violent slaughter conducted by the US on the middle east is on a scale far greater than anything China has done; And you didn't boycott any company for this. All companies basically stayed neutral in terms of their political commitment to the war. This is normal, but did you boycott The entire US? No. Your stated behavior and Americas behavior is anything but consistent. Why so much hate for China? It's obvious. Economic Rivalry. China is well on it's way to possibly being technologically and economically superior to the US. That is the driver behind most of the media bias and your own as well. Anyone taking the crown away from the US has to have a bad side. >I also completely reject the stance that piracy is theft. Good. Nothing wrong with this opinion. However piracy does harm software developers, this is irrelevant to the existence of IP. https://www.macgasm.net/news/iphone-news/ios-game-battle-dungeon-forced-to-shut-down-due-to-piracy/ https://www.macgasm.net/news/iphone-news/ios-game-battle-dun... The money from software doesn't just go to pay a CEO's salary. It pays everyones salary and indeed the above link is an example of a company that went bankrupt because people didn't pay to play the game. The software developers lost their jobs. Consequences occur regardless of your outlook on piracy. >This whole argument is toxic - we can't punish a company for doing unethical things because of all the people who rely on them? No this is only toxic to people who see the world in terms of black and white. I'm not saying don't punish a company. I am saying the ethical complexity of the situation is too sophisticated to be solved by just "punishment" alone. Yet we have people like you trying to bend the entire world into a simple game of hammering a nail into a wall. The world isn't a nail, it's a complex diorama made up of millions of pieces and you can't just treat it like a dumb nail. The point of my post is not to say who's right or who's wrong or whether you should punish a company. The point of my post is to illustrate the complexity of the world so that people stop posting stupid ass statements like "Oh I'm gonna boycott Kodak" Like dude get out of the mob mentality, things are NEVER that simple. Not only is the morality of "boycotting" Kodak ambiguous and irrational, but the practical consequence of boycotting Kodak only damages our own country.

vimacs2 5y ago
Sorry but I'm not American so this whole whataboutism game doesn't really work on me. I actually think America are in fact the worse of the two when it comes to international activities and by a wide margin. I also do in fact boycott American companies based on their profiteering and support for both the Iraq War and the illegal Israeli settlements. I pretty much avoid all products from the UAE and Saudi Arabia as well for similar reasons. This is a fake dichotomy. I can condemn both China and America because I don't see them as that fundamentally different. Both are capitalistic societies - one with neoliberal leanings and the other with a totalitarian state controlled capitalism. Both are intensely hierarchical and class based societies and neither are democratic to a meaningful capacity. Organisations that derive their stability from a base of exploitation do not deserve to exist and I frankly care more about the plight of the workers in the global south than people being laid off in America or China (which is already beginning to outsource work to African states the same way the US had started to outsource work to China). That's not to say that their plight does not matter but keep in mind that much of the material wealth and stability that the US (and to a lesser extent, China) and even it's working class citizens enjoy was built off the back of the South. I am in agreement that boycotts on their own are largely symbolic gestures but broader economic sanctions do have a history of working, South Africa being the most recent example.