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I told myself I'd be fine at 300k. Now I'm there, and I've picked up more hobbies. Doesn't stop me from looking for new gigs, from time to time. Going super dee

I told myself I'd be fine at 300k. Now I'm there, and I've picked up more hobbies. Doesn't stop me from looking for new gigs, from time to time. Going super deep into optimizing for one thing might be a good short-term, but bad long-term proposition. A lot of getting to 700k, I imagine, is luck. So long as you're competent, it's right place, right time. You can't force that situation to happen, so it's wasted energy to invest further.

gavinray 5y ago
You would abandon your company and current position for a slight pay increase? Do you not actually care about the company you work for and you're just there for the pay? You make so much money already -- what is the thought process here Man imagine trying to hire people and knowing they would all leave in a heartbeat for a slight pay increase. What ever happened to working somewhere because you believe in what you're building and the people you're around bring you joy?
- tcbumperino 5y ago
  Imagine caring about your employer who employs 100k+ other people and who would fire you without hesitation. (Or glee even.)
  - gavinray 5y ago
    Why would you ever work for a company that employs that many people and would treat you like shit? For the (slightly more) money? Well then that's your own doing, innit? The great thing about having any sort of skills is that you can pick and choose what you want to do with them. If you choose to work for someone like that, you're willingly subjecting yourself to misery, and to (probably) wasting some of the best years of your life working on things you don't give a flying fuck about. For people who also don't give a flying fuck. There are no fucks to be given -- the organization is, for lack of a better term, Fuckless. Working in a Fuckless org does not, as Marie Kondo would say, "Spark Joy". If you have to choose between: - $150k Salary @ small startup working on something you're passionate about with a close-knit team - $250k Salary @ $BIGCO to be COG_IN_WHEEL_#3356 The tradeoff you're making there is pretty clear I'm not a judgmental person and don't ride moral high-horses. Personally, I value happiness, mental wellbeing, and have a fulfilling life more than slightly more money. If you don't and you choose to subject yourself to all that awful stuff for the money, that's well and good, but you also can't turn around and complain about it or act like it's the only/a normal choice.
    - lovich 5y ago
      > For the (slightly more) money? Bud you said you make 110k and we’re originally responding to people talking about 300k, 500k, and more. There is no reasonable way to look at ~300%+ increase in compensation as “slightly more”. You’ve got a point about working for a company you believe in, but that’s part of your total comp. You chose a package that’s lower pay + fits your interests. When people drop the “fits your interests” requirement they are able to get more comp as part of the package
    - voidfunc 5y ago
      Been in both roles before at Small Fun Startup and BigCo and I'll take BigCo every time now because that extra $100K/yr (and its usually way way way more than that compared to the startup) get me closer to my life goals of total fiscal independence and retirement quicker. So yea, I'll sell my soul and eat shit for enough $$$.
      - pedrosorio 5y ago
        > fiscal independence Probably not since your government will most likely always require you to pay taxes, but you may be able to achieve financial independence for some definition of the expression.
- MathYouF 5y ago
  How many companies are building something worth believing in? The ones who are (few) defintiely don't worry about this problem as much. If a company is having problems with it it's probably that their estimation of their own moral self worth is what's incorrect, not the attitude of their employees.
  - gavinray 5y ago
    So, so many. The world is full of them. I work at my current job because I used their OSS tool at a past position and felt like I had my life changed. Then wanted to share it with every other developer. So I got in contact with them and told them how I felt, and now that's what I do. If I ever feel like the tool doesn't represent the same quality as when I started or the company values have changed, welp, then it's quittin' time and on to the next thing I go I suppose. But I don't see that happening -- or at least I really hope so. Nobody's integrity and happiness should be compromised or up for sale, unless that's what they want. I've slept under bridges and I'll go back to it again before I sell myself out, tell lies, or pretend to be someone I'm not. Here's some examples of things I think are genuinely valuable and jobs I would do: - Software for addiction treatment centers and rehabilitation - Bioinformatics and genomics for disease, especially making information accessible to regular people. Genomics for fitness/sports performance. - Software reform in partnership with state/governmental agencies for criminal justice - Anything to do with LLVM. LLVM is fucking cool. - GraalVM is fucking cool. - Music software -- production (DAW's), plugins, education software to make music theory accessible - Software to make learning programming accessible. Stuff like repl.it, Codesandbox, Scrimba I could go on and on. The world has so many serious issues, and interesting problems/challenges to work on -- just pick one you like and relentlessly hunt companies + people down + study (if you need to, to learn the domain) until you get a job. If I can claw myself out of poverty, drug-addiction, and homelessness as a highschool dropout, into a white-collar career then I'm pretty sure most people with less disadvantaged life scenarios can too. --- Not to pull the cliche, stupid "by-your-bootstraps" argument. But look, humans are driven and intelligent beings that drive the force of history. Don't tell me that there's no company in the world doing something you believe in, and you can't get a job doing what you like, etc. That's really pessimistic and defeatist.
- zinclozenge 5y ago
  Is this a joke? No I don't care about the companies I work for in the slightest. A company is only as good to me as their last paycheck, to paraphrase from The Sopranos.
  - gavinray 5y ago
    Why do you work for a company you don't care about, instead of one you do? Don't you feel hypocritical -- you're supposed to treat others the way you want to be treated. I assume if you were hiring people, you wouldn't want them to do that to you. So why do it to others?
    - the_only_law 5y ago
      > Why do you work for a company you don't care about, instead of one you do? Because they don’t exist?
      - gavinray 5y ago
        That's so bleak. I think I'd sooner go back to drugs and homelessness than face the thought of waking up every day to give the majority of my waking hours to something I don't care about. For almost the rest of my life. Or even worse, something I disliked/working for trash people. I used to have panic attacks thinking about this when I worked mundane, dead-end jobs. Pardon my language but: the fuck is the point even? At least if you're high, in a park reading a book or papers on the internet you're enjoying life. I'm being genuine and not trying to be antagonistic, I'm not sure I understand why you bother to work at all? If you don't find anything in the world interesting, what gives you the will to live and not commit suicide?
        the_only_law 5y ago
        No issues, I get what you’re saying. Funny though, although it’s mostly a “rose colored glasses” sort of thing, I think fondly on my time working shit dead end jobs because I was at least working towards something better whereas now I have to constantly question whether I’ve peaked. > Pardon my language but: the fuck is the point even? When you find out let me know. Some people seem to get lucky enough to have all sorts of other, non work things to keep them going, family, etc. so I suppose if you have that it’s motivation. > I'm not sure I understand why you bother to work at all? Because the alternative is throwing away both my past and any potential for the future, even if it looks grim. As stupid as it is, I’ve thought about though, if not at least because it would give me a blank slate and something to work towards again. Though the few fleeting moments of content was I find are generally at times I wouldn’t be there if I wasn’t wageslaving the rest of the time. > If you don't find anything in the world interesting, what gives you the will to live and not commit suicide? There’s plenty of things I find interesting, just nothing that anyone would ever pay me to do. Maybe they aren’t commercially viable, maybe they’re not really career related things, or maybe I’m not smart/wealthy/educated enough to take them on.
- JMTQp8lwXL 5y ago
  I wouldn't leave my job for a "slight" increase in pay, though that's subjective and we haven't defined concrete amounts, other than 300k and 700k in my previous comment, and such a jump (more than double) could not be characterized as slight-- it's substantial. I need to be paid a risk premium for the new gig having potentially worse colleagues, poorer WLB, or whatever things I find after the interview process. With my current job, I know all of these things. So jumping from 300k, to say, 325k would be unwise and immaterial (8.3%). I might jump for 350, definitely for 400.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > What ever happened to working somewhere because you believe in what you're building and the people you're around bring you joy? Capitalism.
- chillacy 5y ago
  > What ever happened to working somewhere because you believe in what you're building and the people you're around bring you joy? Sounds like capitalist propaganda, unless you work at some sort of co-op which is employee owned or something, ordinary rank-and-file employees are compensated with absolute pennies in terms of equity.

gavinray 5y ago

You would abandon your company and current position for a slight pay increase? Do you not actually care about the company you work for and you're just there for the pay? You make so much money already -- what is the thought process here Man imagine trying to hire people and knowing they would all leave in a heartbeat for a slight pay increase. What ever happened to working somewhere because you believe in what you're building and the people you're around bring you joy?

tcbumperino 5y ago
Imagine caring about your employer who employs 100k+ other people and who would fire you without hesitation. (Or glee even.)
- gavinray 5y ago
  Why would you ever work for a company that employs that many people and would treat you like shit? For the (slightly more) money? Well then that's your own doing, innit? The great thing about having any sort of skills is that you can pick and choose what you want to do with them. If you choose to work for someone like that, you're willingly subjecting yourself to misery, and to (probably) wasting some of the best years of your life working on things you don't give a flying fuck about. For people who also don't give a flying fuck. There are no fucks to be given -- the organization is, for lack of a better term, Fuckless. Working in a Fuckless org does not, as Marie Kondo would say, "Spark Joy". If you have to choose between: - $150k Salary @ small startup working on something you're passionate about with a close-knit team - $250k Salary @ $BIGCO to be COG_IN_WHEEL_#3356 The tradeoff you're making there is pretty clear I'm not a judgmental person and don't ride moral high-horses. Personally, I value happiness, mental wellbeing, and have a fulfilling life more than slightly more money. If you don't and you choose to subject yourself to all that awful stuff for the money, that's well and good, but you also can't turn around and complain about it or act like it's the only/a normal choice.
  - lovich 5y ago
    > For the (slightly more) money? Bud you said you make 110k and we’re originally responding to people talking about 300k, 500k, and more. There is no reasonable way to look at ~300%+ increase in compensation as “slightly more”. You’ve got a point about working for a company you believe in, but that’s part of your total comp. You chose a package that’s lower pay + fits your interests. When people drop the “fits your interests” requirement they are able to get more comp as part of the package
  - voidfunc 5y ago
    Been in both roles before at Small Fun Startup and BigCo and I'll take BigCo every time now because that extra $100K/yr (and its usually way way way more than that compared to the startup) get me closer to my life goals of total fiscal independence and retirement quicker. So yea, I'll sell my soul and eat shit for enough $$$.
    - pedrosorio 5y ago
      > fiscal independence Probably not since your government will most likely always require you to pay taxes, but you may be able to achieve financial independence for some definition of the expression.
MathYouF 5y ago
How many companies are building something worth believing in? The ones who are (few) defintiely don't worry about this problem as much. If a company is having problems with it it's probably that their estimation of their own moral self worth is what's incorrect, not the attitude of their employees.
- gavinray 5y ago
  So, so many. The world is full of them. I work at my current job because I used their OSS tool at a past position and felt like I had my life changed. Then wanted to share it with every other developer. So I got in contact with them and told them how I felt, and now that's what I do. If I ever feel like the tool doesn't represent the same quality as when I started or the company values have changed, welp, then it's quittin' time and on to the next thing I go I suppose. But I don't see that happening -- or at least I really hope so. Nobody's integrity and happiness should be compromised or up for sale, unless that's what they want. I've slept under bridges and I'll go back to it again before I sell myself out, tell lies, or pretend to be someone I'm not. Here's some examples of things I think are genuinely valuable and jobs I would do: - Software for addiction treatment centers and rehabilitation - Bioinformatics and genomics for disease, especially making information accessible to regular people. Genomics for fitness/sports performance. - Software reform in partnership with state/governmental agencies for criminal justice - Anything to do with LLVM. LLVM is fucking cool. - GraalVM is fucking cool. - Music software -- production (DAW's), plugins, education software to make music theory accessible - Software to make learning programming accessible. Stuff like repl.it, Codesandbox, Scrimba I could go on and on. The world has so many serious issues, and interesting problems/challenges to work on -- just pick one you like and relentlessly hunt companies + people down + study (if you need to, to learn the domain) until you get a job. If I can claw myself out of poverty, drug-addiction, and homelessness as a highschool dropout, into a white-collar career then I'm pretty sure most people with less disadvantaged life scenarios can too. --- Not to pull the cliche, stupid "by-your-bootstraps" argument. But look, humans are driven and intelligent beings that drive the force of history. Don't tell me that there's no company in the world doing something you believe in, and you can't get a job doing what you like, etc. That's really pessimistic and defeatist.
zinclozenge 5y ago
Is this a joke? No I don't care about the companies I work for in the slightest. A company is only as good to me as their last paycheck, to paraphrase from The Sopranos.
- gavinray 5y ago
  Why do you work for a company you don't care about, instead of one you do? Don't you feel hypocritical -- you're supposed to treat others the way you want to be treated. I assume if you were hiring people, you wouldn't want them to do that to you. So why do it to others?
  - the_only_law 5y ago
    > Why do you work for a company you don't care about, instead of one you do? Because they don’t exist?
    - gavinray 5y ago
      That's so bleak. I think I'd sooner go back to drugs and homelessness than face the thought of waking up every day to give the majority of my waking hours to something I don't care about. For almost the rest of my life. Or even worse, something I disliked/working for trash people. I used to have panic attacks thinking about this when I worked mundane, dead-end jobs. Pardon my language but: the fuck is the point even? At least if you're high, in a park reading a book or papers on the internet you're enjoying life. I'm being genuine and not trying to be antagonistic, I'm not sure I understand why you bother to work at all? If you don't find anything in the world interesting, what gives you the will to live and not commit suicide?
      - the_only_law 5y ago
        No issues, I get what you’re saying. Funny though, although it’s mostly a “rose colored glasses” sort of thing, I think fondly on my time working shit dead end jobs because I was at least working towards something better whereas now I have to constantly question whether I’ve peaked. > Pardon my language but: the fuck is the point even? When you find out let me know. Some people seem to get lucky enough to have all sorts of other, non work things to keep them going, family, etc. so I suppose if you have that it’s motivation. > I'm not sure I understand why you bother to work at all? Because the alternative is throwing away both my past and any potential for the future, even if it looks grim. As stupid as it is, I’ve thought about though, if not at least because it would give me a blank slate and something to work towards again. Though the few fleeting moments of content was I find are generally at times I wouldn’t be there if I wasn’t wageslaving the rest of the time. > If you don't find anything in the world interesting, what gives you the will to live and not commit suicide? There’s plenty of things I find interesting, just nothing that anyone would ever pay me to do. Maybe they aren’t commercially viable, maybe they’re not really career related things, or maybe I’m not smart/wealthy/educated enough to take them on.
JMTQp8lwXL 5y ago
I wouldn't leave my job for a "slight" increase in pay, though that's subjective and we haven't defined concrete amounts, other than 300k and 700k in my previous comment, and such a jump (more than double) could not be characterized as slight-- it's substantial. I need to be paid a risk premium for the new gig having potentially worse colleagues, poorer WLB, or whatever things I find after the interview process. With my current job, I know all of these things. So jumping from 300k, to say, 325k would be unwise and immaterial (8.3%). I might jump for 350, definitely for 400.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> What ever happened to working somewhere because you believe in what you're building and the people you're around bring you joy? Capitalism.
chillacy 5y ago
> What ever happened to working somewhere because you believe in what you're building and the people you're around bring you joy? Sounds like capitalist propaganda, unless you work at some sort of co-op which is employee owned or something, ordinary rank-and-file employees are compensated with absolute pennies in terms of equity.