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I've used Linux as my only desktop OS for 20+ years (since high school) and Ubuntu for the past 10 of those years (previously Gentoo, RedHat). It's not yet rea

by dheera 5y ago

I've used Linux as my only desktop OS for 20+ years (since high school) and Ubuntu for the past 10 of those years (previously Gentoo, RedHat). It's not yet ready for prime time. When I set up a new machine there are still tons of things I have to "fix" from the command line. Touchpad scrolling. Getting my Jabra to not auto-adjust volume to 0 every time I speak. Modprobe this, modprobe that. Setting up an L2TP VPN. Getting bluetooth audio to support AAC/AptX. Getting Chinese input to work properly. Configuring the extra buttons on my keyboard and mouse to do useful things. Disabling IPv6. Installing CUDA and CUDNN. Creating a virtual camera. Ignoring TCP reset packets (commonly needed when visiting China). Adding support for ExFAT SD cards, which almost all Canon cameras use. Writing files to USB thumb drives without root permissions. Mounting an SMB or S3 volume automatically at startup. Setting programs to start automatically at startup. Scheduling tasks to execute at certain times. I need to go to the command line to do all of these things. On Windows and Mac most of these things can be done graphically. Oh and even Chrome doesn't install on a default Ubuntu 18.04 system. You have to do "sudo apt-get install libpango" first or "sudo apt-get -f install" after installing it.

netr0ute 5y ago
Weird, because PopOS does a lot of what you describe and doesn't have that annoying Chrome issue.
yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
If you're configuring VPNs, mounting S3 buckets, and tweaking low-level TCP/IP settings, I doubt that using a terminal is going to be a problem.
- throwaway984393 5y ago
  I work with users who have never used a terminal in their life, but still need all 3 of those things. I can tell them "Go download X & run it" on Windows. Getting those things to work on Linux would be a monumental feat [for them].
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Experience for downloading software on Windows: - search for software name online - open first 3 links to find reputable download source - decide on format (portable exe vs msi installer vs zipped binary) and download it - invoke software installer specific to the software - hope you never have to uninstall it Experience for downloading software on Linux: - open package manager - find software - click "install" I'll let you draw your own conclusions, I guess.
    - throwaway984393 5y ago
      Yeah, Windows is easier. I can provide a user a URL to a Windows installer to skip those steps. (they don't need to uninstall it) For Linux, the software I described does not exist as a package with an accompanying GUI app (and even if it did, which package for which distro?). That's the thing about these discussions: when a person has a real complaint about something that is very difficult for a regular person in Linux, there is always a theoretical way that Linux is easier, but then in practice it doesn't work.
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        Well my "theoretical" Windows software doesn't have an MSI installer, and has to be extracted as a portable file where the binary is hidden deep in a release folder.
      - dheera 5y ago
        And also not to mention the Ubuntu GUI software store is slow as fuck. Zero attention was put into making it a snappy user experience. It has in every way been an afterthought. If I double-click a .deb file to open it, it takes a good 7-8 seconds. On an i7 8th gen. That's not acceptable. If it needs to process something it should show up in 0.1 s and show a progress bar. I don't use it because it's faster to open a terminal and type `sudo dpkg -i foo<tab><enter>`. Most Linux users today probably do it that way, so nobody cared to optimize the GUI "alternative".
  - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
temac 5y ago
With such a laundry-list, I'm not 100% sure being "ready for prime time" means having a graphical interface for all those configurations.
- dheera 5y ago
  Yeah I think this mentality is why Linux isn't a good desktop OS for many people. With Mac/Win the usual mentality is that almost everything can be done graphically, even if it involves digging into the registry that's still a graphical UI that you can operate with a mouse. As a Linux user and command line aficionado I'm not saying that's bad, but until that mentality changes it's not going to be for the masses.

by dheera 5y ago

netr0ute 5y ago

Weird, because PopOS does a lot of what you describe and doesn't have that annoying Chrome issue.

yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago

If you're configuring VPNs, mounting S3 buckets, and tweaking low-level TCP/IP settings, I doubt that using a terminal is going to be a problem.

throwaway984393 5y ago
I work with users who have never used a terminal in their life, but still need all 3 of those things. I can tell them "Go download X & run it" on Windows. Getting those things to work on Linux would be a monumental feat [for them].
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Experience for downloading software on Windows: - search for software name online - open first 3 links to find reputable download source - decide on format (portable exe vs msi installer vs zipped binary) and download it - invoke software installer specific to the software - hope you never have to uninstall it Experience for downloading software on Linux: - open package manager - find software - click "install" I'll let you draw your own conclusions, I guess.
  - throwaway984393 5y ago
    Yeah, Windows is easier. I can provide a user a URL to a Windows installer to skip those steps. (they don't need to uninstall it) For Linux, the software I described does not exist as a package with an accompanying GUI app (and even if it did, which package for which distro?). That's the thing about these discussions: when a person has a real complaint about something that is very difficult for a regular person in Linux, there is always a theoretical way that Linux is easier, but then in practice it doesn't work.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      Well my "theoretical" Windows software doesn't have an MSI installer, and has to be extracted as a portable file where the binary is hidden deep in a release folder.
    - dheera 5y ago
      And also not to mention the Ubuntu GUI software store is slow as fuck. Zero attention was put into making it a snappy user experience. It has in every way been an afterthought. If I double-click a .deb file to open it, it takes a good 7-8 seconds. On an i7 8th gen. That's not acceptable. If it needs to process something it should show up in 0.1 s and show a progress bar. I don't use it because it's faster to open a terminal and type `sudo dpkg -i foo<tab><enter>`. Most Linux users today probably do it that way, so nobody cared to optimize the GUI "alternative".
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago

temac 5y ago

With such a laundry-list, I'm not 100% sure being "ready for prime time" means having a graphical interface for all those configurations.

dheera 5y ago
Yeah I think this mentality is why Linux isn't a good desktop OS for many people. With Mac/Win the usual mentality is that almost everything can be done graphically, even if it involves digging into the registry that's still a graphical UI that you can operate with a mouse. As a Linux user and command line aficionado I'm not saying that's bad, but until that mentality changes it's not going to be for the masses.