8 ms·
This may sound weird but it's easier to do this when you don't need it. When we're negotiating, people can smell desperation. If you can easily walk away from a
by warent 5y ago
This may sound weird but it's easier to do this when you don't need it. When we're negotiating, people can smell desperation. If you can easily walk away from a negotiation/offer, you're suddenly in a much more powerful position.
Once you're there, figure out how much sounds like a lot and ask for even more. Either they'll surprise you and accept the terms, or you will negotiate "down" to the amount that sounded like a lot. Worst case scenario, they don't take the deal and you reject them to go find a new negotiation until you get what you want
- yosito 5y agoThis negotiation tactic works fine if you don't have to do full day coding challenges to get to that phase, while also working a full time job.
- warent 5y agoThese days I just immediately turn those down without a second thought. It's a joke of an interviewing system and your time is way too valuable for that. Happy to do coding questions, but not 8 hour long take-home projects. Those have screwed me too many times
- sirmike_ 5y agoThis is very, very true. I refuse to do coding based interviews. I'm flexible on certain homework. Hell will freeze over before I have to sit through a multi-hour panel and coding session. Like for free? Hit the bricks. Who can just take 4-6 hours out of your normal work day to swing into something like that? Not even germane to my role. The fastest way to avoid companies like that is to set boundaries on what you will do and will not do. Good recruiters LISTEN and respect this. I do not want my time wasted and likewise for the recruiters and companies I am talking too.
- Rapzid 5y agoTeleport has a comically large test. Think 20-40 hours.
- ryanar 5y agostrongDM is hiring and we do not spend 20-40 hours or do take home tests. Email ryan@strongdm.com if you are interested. https://jobs.lever.co/strongdm https://jobs.lever.co/strongdm
- bittercynic 5y agoCould those long coding projects be a strategy to force you into sinking so much effort into the process that you're now in a weak negotiating position due to the sunk cost? I admit I'm speaking from ignorance here, and am only curious to gain more insight into this.
- warent 5y agoI've never thought of that! only rver heard my bosses/colleagues say they felt it gave them a better signal. But it wouldnt surprise me if some people had darker motives like this
- IThoughtYouGNU 5y agoYes, definitely
- wyclif 5y agoCould those long coding projects be a strategy to force you into sinking so much effort into the process that you're now in a weak negotiating position due to the sunk cost? Yes, absolutely they can! And almost nobody talks about this. Most of the conversation about take-home projects surrounds cost/benefit ratio, but almost never as a negotiating tactic and sunk costs.
- wdb 5y agoThe worst kind are the coding challenges were they don't even respond back to you after delivering it. Happens a lot in London.
- weezin 5y agoI felt like it was more of a way to see if you are willing to take on a large workload no questions asked when you are hired.
- voidfunc 5y agoI have a different strategy, I will happily do one one or two take home exercises (and I'm willing to sink 8-16h into them) but I will tell the recruiter I'm not doing any additional coding on-site (personally I find this high-anxiety, and a crappy way to gauge skill). Happy to chat about all kinds of things, but if someone drops an involved coding question in an interview I'm done and I will walk out and not return future calls.
- aix1 5y ago> if someone drops an involved coding question in an interview I'm done and I will walk out and not return future calls With the greatest respect, the vibe I'm getting is "this person is prone to reacting in a volatile manner when things are not to their liking."
- voidfunc 5y agoSure, and this is the internet where tone doesn't translate well. I'd be tactful and courteous about it: I would finish the session, politely decline future interviews on the day and thank them for their time. It's clear we are not a fit for each other at that point.
- lr4444lr 5y agoI think just the opposite: the best time to pounce on them with salary expectations is as late as possible, after they've already invested the interview time on you and seen you excel.
- JMTQp8lwXL 5y agoIf they already have their budget in mind before the interview process began, it won't buy you any leverage waiting until the very end. They won't care that they burnt the money/time/energy considering your candidacy, even if that costs them more in the long run. I've ended up wasting a lot of my own time with this strategy. I'll get to the point where they want to extend an offer, I name my number, and then we have an awkward 15 minutes on the phone (e.g., "the VP couldn't ever approve that amount") and then I say I'm not interested 24 hours later.
- lostcolony 5y ago"If they already have their budget in mind before the interview process began" This is impossible to know though, as is its breakdown. Many places have very fixed limits on salary and bonus, for instance, but RSUs and sign on they have a lot of freedom. Even the places that have fixed budgets all around may have multiple openings of varying levels; a strong interview showing may cause them to bump the level they'd look to hire you at, just to meet your comp expectations (I've seen this happen numerous times as a manager when a candidate came back asking for more). If they bring it up at the start, great, it saves a lot of time for both of you. If -you- bring it up at the start, though, you're just closing off opportunities.
- sokoloff 5y agoIf you’re closing off opportunities that you wouldn’t take anyway, it’s just another form of time savings. I make sure we’re at least in the same chapter if not the exact same page on comp before spending more than a 25-minute intro.
- 5y ago
- indymike 5y agoIf that is the process, and you've survived the gauntlet, you have the leverage.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]