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There's plenty of data. For example, producing single-use plastic grocery bags uses such a trivial amount of energy and resources that it almost doesn't matter—
by frosted-flakes 5y ago
There's plenty of data. For example, producing single-use plastic grocery bags uses such a trivial amount of energy and resources that it almost doesn't matter—thousands and thousands of times less than an equivalent cotton bag. The bigger problem is disposal. If single-use plastics can be safely sequestered in landfills, that's a mostly solved problem, but that isn't always the case.
- TedDoesntTalk 5y agoWhat about paper bags?
- frosted-flakes 5y agoI seem to remember that paper bags are close to single-use plastic bags, but still use more energy to produce and also require wood pulp. Paper bags can easily be recycled, but "single-use" plastic bags can easily be re-used as household trash bags, or otherwise. So it's a toss-up.
- kaybe 5y agoI've seen some grass cardboard pop up in the few deliveries we get. The wood pulp is probably negotiable and increasingly more so.
- TedDoesntTalk 5y ago> re-used as household trash bags But that’s a one-time reuse for something that’s not going to biodegrade when it ends up in the ocean or landfill
- frosted-flakes 5y agoIt should never end up in the ocean, and nothing really biodegrades in landfill, especially not paper.
- TedDoesntTalk 5y agoI mean, I disagree with both of those statements entirely. Do you have any sources? I do, but not googling at the moment. EDIT: quick Google search has many sources listing paper degrading in 2-6 weeks in landfills. Plastic in the ocean… I think you need to b by broaden your horizons if you think that doesn’t happen
- throwawayboise 5y agoPaper degrades if it is near the surface, mixed with loose dirt, and still getting oxygen. If it's packed down under feet of compacted soil and other trash it degrades much more slowly.
- TedDoesntTalk 5y agoI thought the heat deep within landfills is intense from all sorts of things degrading.
- nate_meurer 5y agoIt depends entirely on the content of the waste and the levels of moisture and air infiltration. Some landfills are known to generate huge amounts of methane, and ooze black sludge at the surface. This famously occured after the 1989 San Francisco earthquake. In contrast, landfills in arid places can preserve trash like a museum: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-07-17-mn-14066-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-07-17-mn-14066-...
- frosted-flakes 5y agoYou think plastics should end up in the ocean? Why? It definitely should not, and if waste is managed correctly, it doesn't. And I'm not saying decomposition doesn't happen at all in landfills; it very clearly does, but the sort of decomposition that takes place is incomplete and slow, because landfills aren't ideal places for decomposition to occur. But that doesn't matter. Once it's buried, who cares if it takes 300 years to decompose?
- dec0dedab0de 5y agoI think a benefit of paper bags would be encouraging planting trees to make more bags
- katbyte 5y ago> re-used as household trash bags this is what i do, and if they were banned i'd be using some sort of bag and then purchasing trash bags separately using maybe twice the resources?
- brandonmenc 5y agoThis is exactly what I've been doing since moving to Austin. I get paper bags at the grocery and throw them out immediately after a single use, and now I have to also buy plastic garbage bags for under the sink, which I never used to do.
- mint2 5y agoBut isn’t the way the disposable plastic bags are so cheap actually one of the sneaky ways they are bad? It’s definitely not good for the environment but is a hard to break out or local minima.