6 ms·

As long as we can keep plastic waste out of the environment, does it really matter?

by dehrmann 5y ago

8note 5y ago
Is that a sensible phrase? The environment is everywhere.
- CheezeIt 5y ago
  Landfills aren’t everywhere.
  - nikisweeting 5y ago
    Why not not focus on building more and better landfills then? Seems like a better solution that shipping trash long distances to other countries only to have it end up in the ocean.
    - CheezeIt 5y ago
      We don’t ship our “trash”, distinguished from our recycling, to other countries.
      - nikisweeting 5y ago
        Nah, the vast majority is trash to begin with or ends up as trash. Only a fraction ends up recycled.
        CheezeIt 5y ago
        Plastic bags don’t go in the recycling, they go in the trash bin.
        nikisweeting 5y ago
        It's not a matter of any one thing, the vast majority of "recycling" is trash to begin with, or ends as trash without being recycled.
        CheezeIt 5y ago
        That’s the goal. You want them to end up as trash. It’s not cost effective to recycle it, and if it were, that would lower costs and create more pollution.
- jonas21 5y ago
  Yes, as long as the plastic ends up in a proper landfill, it won't cause harm to the environment. In places with good waste management practices, like the U.S., nearly all plastic trash ends up in a landfill. As a result, the U.S. is responsible for only ~0.25% of plastic in the ocean [1]. To put this in perspective, if you got the Philippines to reduce the amount of plastic it sends to the ocean by just 1%, it would have a larger impact on ocean plastic than completely eliminating plastic in the U.S. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics https://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics
  - nikisweeting 5y ago
    To add to this, landfills have a bad reputation but are actually a pretty good solution to trash when operated well. By concentrating waste in a single place and sealing it in hermetically (with constant nearby environmental monitoring), it doesn't end up strewn everywhere. Also when it becomes economical to recycle parts it in the future, we don't have to go hunting around for it, we can just dig it up and process it in-place or nearby. https://medium.com/@robertwiblin/what-you-think-about-landfill-and-recycling-is-probably-totally-wrong-3a6cf57049ce https://medium.com/@robertwiblin/what-you-think-about-landfi...
  - Voloskaya 5y ago
    > In places with good waste management practices, like the U.S., nearly all plastic trash ends up in a landfill. This is not true, see [1]. > As a result, the U.S. is responsible for only ~0.25% of plastic in the ocean. This is also not true, and your link does not say that. The link is saying that the rivers in the USA are carrying 0.25% of the plastic that ends up in the ocean, the U.S. (as in, the people living in the US) are responsible for much, much more. Recycling plastic is a mess, so instead of dealing with it, countries like the U.S. or Canada have decided to ship it across the world to countries like the Philippines to be "recycled" over there (see [2]). So now, of course, if you look at where the plastic enters the ocean, you will see that almost all of it happens in Asian countries, that's not because they use more plastic, that's just because that's where all the plastic of the world ends up. Taking into account the origin of the platic, the U.S. is among the worst offenders: > "the United States generated the largest amount of plastic waste of any country in the world (42.0 Mt). Between 0.14 and 0.41 Mt of this waste was illegally dumped in the United States, and 0.15 to 0.99 Mt was inadequately managed in countries that imported materials collected in the United States for recycling." [1] [1]: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/44/eabd0288 https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/44/eabd0288 [2]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Philippines_waste_dispute#:~:text=The%20Canada%E2%80%93Philippines%20waste%20dispute,they%20instead%20contained%20household%20waste https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Philippines_was....
INTPenis 5y ago
But the giant pacific garbage patch, and any island beach not maintained regularly will clearly tell you plastics end up in the ocean regardless. I think the only solution is global legislation forcing consumers and businesses to use alternatives.
- logifail 5y ago
  > the giant pacific garbage patch Q: Do we know where the plastics in the pacific garbage patch actually come from?
  - handrous 5y ago
    Last I heard, the overwhelming majority of the plastic in the ocean comes from three or four rivers, none of which flow through OECD states. [EDIT] which is not to say that the plastic was not used and discarded in an OECD state, then shipped elsewhere for "disposal" (LOL).
  - INTPenis 5y ago
    Even if a lot of garbage can be traced to Asian countries (that might be because of currents into the pacific) there is still a massive problem with plastic elsewhere. For example in a documentary with Simon Reeve where he tours the mediterranean he visits a conservation center for sea turtles. The staff there show him a bunch of plastic found inside the stomachs of two of their rescues and among the plastic found was a pasta wrapper. So I think the type of plastic in the worlds oceans is completely dependent on how streams communicate into the ocean.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

As long as we can keep plastic waste out of the environment, does it really matter?

8note 5y ago

Is that a sensible phrase? The environment is everywhere.

CheezeIt 5y ago
Landfills aren’t everywhere.
- nikisweeting 5y ago
  Why not not focus on building more and better landfills then? Seems like a better solution that shipping trash long distances to other countries only to have it end up in the ocean.
  - CheezeIt 5y ago
    We don’t ship our “trash”, distinguished from our recycling, to other countries.
    - nikisweeting 5y ago
      Nah, the vast majority is trash to begin with or ends up as trash. Only a fraction ends up recycled.
      - CheezeIt 5y ago
        Plastic bags don’t go in the recycling, they go in the trash bin.
        nikisweeting 5y ago
        It's not a matter of any one thing, the vast majority of "recycling" is trash to begin with, or ends as trash without being recycled.
        CheezeIt 5y ago
        That’s the goal. You want them to end up as trash. It’s not cost effective to recycle it, and if it were, that would lower costs and create more pollution.
jonas21 5y ago
Yes, as long as the plastic ends up in a proper landfill, it won't cause harm to the environment. In places with good waste management practices, like the U.S., nearly all plastic trash ends up in a landfill. As a result, the U.S. is responsible for only ~0.25% of plastic in the ocean [1]. To put this in perspective, if you got the Philippines to reduce the amount of plastic it sends to the ocean by just 1%, it would have a larger impact on ocean plastic than completely eliminating plastic in the U.S. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics https://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics
- nikisweeting 5y ago
  To add to this, landfills have a bad reputation but are actually a pretty good solution to trash when operated well. By concentrating waste in a single place and sealing it in hermetically (with constant nearby environmental monitoring), it doesn't end up strewn everywhere. Also when it becomes economical to recycle parts it in the future, we don't have to go hunting around for it, we can just dig it up and process it in-place or nearby. https://medium.com/@robertwiblin/what-you-think-about-landfill-and-recycling-is-probably-totally-wrong-3a6cf57049ce https://medium.com/@robertwiblin/what-you-think-about-landfi...
- Voloskaya 5y ago
  > In places with good waste management practices, like the U.S., nearly all plastic trash ends up in a landfill. This is not true, see [1]. > As a result, the U.S. is responsible for only ~0.25% of plastic in the ocean. This is also not true, and your link does not say that. The link is saying that the rivers in the USA are carrying 0.25% of the plastic that ends up in the ocean, the U.S. (as in, the people living in the US) are responsible for much, much more. Recycling plastic is a mess, so instead of dealing with it, countries like the U.S. or Canada have decided to ship it across the world to countries like the Philippines to be "recycled" over there (see [2]). So now, of course, if you look at where the plastic enters the ocean, you will see that almost all of it happens in Asian countries, that's not because they use more plastic, that's just because that's where all the plastic of the world ends up. Taking into account the origin of the platic, the U.S. is among the worst offenders: > "the United States generated the largest amount of plastic waste of any country in the world (42.0 Mt). Between 0.14 and 0.41 Mt of this waste was illegally dumped in the United States, and 0.15 to 0.99 Mt was inadequately managed in countries that imported materials collected in the United States for recycling." [1] [1]: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/44/eabd0288 https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/44/eabd0288 [2]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Philippines_waste_dispute#:~:text=The%20Canada%E2%80%93Philippines%20waste%20dispute,they%20instead%20contained%20household%20waste https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Philippines_was....

INTPenis 5y ago

But the giant pacific garbage patch, and any island beach not maintained regularly will clearly tell you plastics end up in the ocean regardless. I think the only solution is global legislation forcing consumers and businesses to use alternatives.

logifail 5y ago
> the giant pacific garbage patch Q: Do we know where the plastics in the pacific garbage patch actually come from?
- handrous 5y ago
  Last I heard, the overwhelming majority of the plastic in the ocean comes from three or four rivers, none of which flow through OECD states. [EDIT] which is not to say that the plastic was not used and discarded in an OECD state, then shipped elsewhere for "disposal" (LOL).
- INTPenis 5y ago
  Even if a lot of garbage can be traced to Asian countries (that might be because of currents into the pacific) there is still a massive problem with plastic elsewhere. For example in a documentary with Simon Reeve where he tours the mediterranean he visits a conservation center for sea turtles. The staff there show him a bunch of plastic found inside the stomachs of two of their rescues and among the plastic found was a pasta wrapper. So I think the type of plastic in the worlds oceans is completely dependent on how streams communicate into the ocean.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]