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I believe it. But that doesn't mean we're innocent in the rest of the western world. One really cool improvement here in Sweden recently, besides "banning" pl

I believe it. But that doesn't mean we're innocent in the rest of the western world. One really cool improvement here in Sweden recently, besides "banning" plastic bags at supermarkets, was one store called ICA started selling their burger pattys in cardboard packaging. So the only plastic is a top foil that you peel off to open the package, the rest is cardboard. Pretty cool! That's one area where we're all guilty, namely fresh meat and dairy packaging. Speaking of dairy and meat I tend to buy from the butcher's section instead of the pre-packaged stuff, just because they wrap it in paper instead of plastic. It's the little things you can do. And to store it in your fridge, don't wrap it in cellofane, use glass tubs with plastic lids instead. Yeah the lids are plastic but they're amazing at keeping stuff fresh and re-usable.

pomian 5y ago
Everything tastes better wrapped in paper, or real wax paper. Like at a butcher shop. The worst is the stiff plastic boxes used for pastries in a bakery. Visual, tactile, taste, aural, all is worse than a classical piece of paper or cardboard box. (Then there is the modern paper stations that a very thin veneer of plastic coating that is horrible too, but pretends to be good.)
the-dude 5y ago
Isn't the cardboard 'lined' ? And how much does it actually differ, plastic vs cardboard? For the cardboard, the basic ingredient also has to be harvested, or won another way. Then it needs to be transformed into cardboard.
- grenoire 5y ago
  Cardboard dissolves in nature, plastic doesn't. It disposes of itself, for the most part.
  - nikisweeting 5y ago
    Not most of the fluorinated cardboard used for food packaging. It takes a really long time to break down and releases a bunch of nasty stuff in the process. https://thecounter.org/pfas-forever-chemicals-sweetgreen-chipotle-compostable-biodegradable-bowls/ https://thecounter.org/pfas-forever-chemicals-sweetgreen-chi...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
elric 5y ago
Not to rain on your parade, but all these "little things" add up to ... a little thing. Cling film and aluminium foil are both incredibly useful at ridiculously tiny thickness/weight levels. One roll of 30m of either easily lasts a year or two in my kitchen. A glass tub probably has way more embodied energy, I'd need more of them, etc. The full life cycle analysis might not be as clear cut as we'd like. Those "cardboard" foot containers are usually lined/sealed with stuff containing PFAS and goodness knows what else. In days of yore, butchers (etc) would use wax paper for wrapping food. Which is ... paper ... and paraffin wax. A hydrocarbon usually derived from, you guessed it, petroleum. This war on useful food packaging is silly and maybe even counter productive. A box of individually wrapped chocolates is pretty stupid. But a pallet full of those boxes is often wrapped with more plastic than all the other packaging combined, and then some!
- pcdoodle 5y ago
  That's a pretty good point. Pick your battles as they say.
IfOnlyYouKnew 5y ago
Either the EU or just Germany just outlawed Styropors for food packaging. Granted, I had seen it rarely, and the larger chains like McDonald's had abolished it a decade+ ago. But on the occasions where I got stuff delivered with it, I felt kinda dirty. There are quite a few schemes for reusable packaging for food delivery currently getting started. It's a concept that needs a certain amount of market penetration and concentration to work, but has the potential to make a significant contribution for private sector/household trash and energy use.
dmm 5y ago
> ICA started selling their burger pattys in cardboard packaging. Fast food paper/cardboard packaging has a layer of PFAS containing compounds to make them grease-proof. And consumption of fast food is correlated with PFAS blood concentrations so it probably contaminates the food. Hopefully the packaging you're describing isn't, but... https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/06/health/toxic-food-wrappers-pfas-wellness/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/06/health/toxic-food-wrappers-pf...
kortilla 5y ago
> they wrap it in paper instead of plastic. It's the little things you can do. Yet you still eat meat. It’s fucking appalling how easy it is to placate ourselves by rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
alkonaut 5y ago
I think for plastic it's important to note what the usage is. A plastic straw is much more likely than a meat package to end up in the wrong place. Because a meat pack is unpacked in a kitchen so probably 99.99% will end up in a garbage can. If just 1 straw of 100 ends up in a river that's much worse. (This is assuming the problem with plastic is direct pollution and not CO2)
nostromo 5y ago
A lot of cardboard packaging incorporates plastic layers in them -- something people seem not to know. For example, your Starbucks cup is covered in plastic film and is generally not recyclable. It actually contains more plastic than straws do, which are now being banned in many cities. The same is true for things like milk cartons or juice boxes. Even your aluminum soda can has plastic in it.

pomian 5y ago

Everything tastes better wrapped in paper, or real wax paper. Like at a butcher shop. The worst is the stiff plastic boxes used for pastries in a bakery. Visual, tactile, taste, aural, all is worse than a classical piece of paper or cardboard box. (Then there is the modern paper stations that a very thin veneer of plastic coating that is horrible too, but pretends to be good.)

the-dude 5y ago

Isn't the cardboard 'lined' ? And how much does it actually differ, plastic vs cardboard? For the cardboard, the basic ingredient also has to be harvested, or won another way. Then it needs to be transformed into cardboard.

grenoire 5y ago
Cardboard dissolves in nature, plastic doesn't. It disposes of itself, for the most part.
- nikisweeting 5y ago
  Not most of the fluorinated cardboard used for food packaging. It takes a really long time to break down and releases a bunch of nasty stuff in the process. https://thecounter.org/pfas-forever-chemicals-sweetgreen-chipotle-compostable-biodegradable-bowls/ https://thecounter.org/pfas-forever-chemicals-sweetgreen-chi...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

elric 5y ago

Not to rain on your parade, but all these "little things" add up to ... a little thing. Cling film and aluminium foil are both incredibly useful at ridiculously tiny thickness/weight levels. One roll of 30m of either easily lasts a year or two in my kitchen. A glass tub probably has way more embodied energy, I'd need more of them, etc. The full life cycle analysis might not be as clear cut as we'd like. Those "cardboard" foot containers are usually lined/sealed with stuff containing PFAS and goodness knows what else. In days of yore, butchers (etc) would use wax paper for wrapping food. Which is ... paper ... and paraffin wax. A hydrocarbon usually derived from, you guessed it, petroleum. This war on useful food packaging is silly and maybe even counter productive. A box of individually wrapped chocolates is pretty stupid. But a pallet full of those boxes is often wrapped with more plastic than all the other packaging combined, and then some!

pcdoodle 5y ago
That's a pretty good point. Pick your battles as they say.

IfOnlyYouKnew 5y ago

Either the EU or just Germany just outlawed Styropors for food packaging. Granted, I had seen it rarely, and the larger chains like McDonald's had abolished it a decade+ ago. But on the occasions where I got stuff delivered with it, I felt kinda dirty. There are quite a few schemes for reusable packaging for food delivery currently getting started. It's a concept that needs a certain amount of market penetration and concentration to work, but has the potential to make a significant contribution for private sector/household trash and energy use.

dmm 5y ago

> ICA started selling their burger pattys in cardboard packaging. Fast food paper/cardboard packaging has a layer of PFAS containing compounds to make them grease-proof. And consumption of fast food is correlated with PFAS blood concentrations so it probably contaminates the food. Hopefully the packaging you're describing isn't, but... https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/06/health/toxic-food-wrappers-pfas-wellness/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/06/health/toxic-food-wrappers-pf...

kortilla 5y ago

> they wrap it in paper instead of plastic. It's the little things you can do. Yet you still eat meat. It’s fucking appalling how easy it is to placate ourselves by rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

alkonaut 5y ago

I think for plastic it's important to note what the usage is. A plastic straw is much more likely than a meat package to end up in the wrong place. Because a meat pack is unpacked in a kitchen so probably 99.99% will end up in a garbage can. If just 1 straw of 100 ends up in a river that's much worse. (This is assuming the problem with plastic is direct pollution and not CO2)

nostromo 5y ago

A lot of cardboard packaging incorporates plastic layers in them -- something people seem not to know. For example, your Starbucks cup is covered in plastic film and is generally not recyclable. It actually contains more plastic than straws do, which are now being banned in many cities. The same is true for things like milk cartons or juice boxes. Even your aluminum soda can has plastic in it.