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Have you tried using a screen reader with Flutter apps or the canvas-based Docs? From the very first result on “Flutter accessibility”: >> We strongly encoura

by wffurr 5y ago

Have you tried using a screen reader with Flutter apps or the canvas-based Docs? From the very first result on “Flutter accessibility”: >> We strongly encourage you to include an accessibility checklist as a key criteria before shipping your app. Flutter is committed to supporting developers in making their apps more accessible, and includes first-class framework support for accessibility in addition to that provided by the underlying operating system https://flutter.dev/docs/development/accessibility-and-localization/accessibility https://flutter.dev/docs/development/accessibility-and-local...

ushakov 5y ago
encouraging accessibility is not enforcing accessibility edit: what i meant here is, instead of making the framework accessible out of the box, Google is trying to shift the responsibility to the developers
- daviddever23box 5y ago
  Whose statutory responsibility is it to enforce accessibility? And by what methods? I'm not encouraging folks to flout this, but one needs to be quite specific as to what is required where, and for whom.
- arp242 5y ago
  Enforced accessibility would be horrible. What if I want to make an application just for me? Or a game or something else where the basic concept isn't fundamentally accessible for blind people? A lot of the open source software I release is for one reason and one reason only: it's useful for me. I generally try to make it a bit useful for others as well, but that's mostly just a nice bonus. I do care about accessibility in general (actually, I've been meaning to ask Matt about accessibility on CLI programs) but it's not really something I think about on these kind of programs, just like I usually don't consider most use cases outside of my own. If someone were to bring it up then I'd see if something could be done (like any other issue people bring up), but this depends on my available time and "if I feel like it" as well. The alternative would be to never release it at all and keep it in my ~/code directory. I think that would be a loss.
  - mwcampbell 5y ago
    > (actually, I've been meaning to ask Matt about accessibility on CLI programs Assuming you meant me and not some other Matt, go ahead. In general, I'd say it's pretty hard to make line-oriented CLI programs inaccessible. Screen-oriented (e.g. ncurses-based) programs are, in my experience, harder to use with a screen reader, but still generally not terrible. Anyway, happy to answer any specific questions you have.
    - arp242 5y ago
      Yeah, I meant you :-) Some time ago I was drafting an article on CLI UX principles, and I wondered if there are specific a18y issues or annoyances that could be included. I couldn't find a lot of resources on this. I do remember this old bsdtalk interview from years ago[1] about a Braille user, and what she said pretty much mirrors your comment: "CLI apps are usually really good, curses can be tricky". My feeling was that there wasn't much written about it because there's not much to write about: "it just works". Still, there might be (small) things that might make a difference; as you pointed out in your other reply, it's hard for me to truly "experience" this. I thought it might be a good idea to check in with some people. [1]: bsdtalk.blogspot.com/2008/03/bsdtalk143-bsd-hobbiest-deborah-norling.html
- deleted 5y ago
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by wffurr 5y ago

ushakov 5y ago

encouraging accessibility is not enforcing accessibility edit: what i meant here is, instead of making the framework accessible out of the box, Google is trying to shift the responsibility to the developers

daviddever23box 5y ago
Whose statutory responsibility is it to enforce accessibility? And by what methods? I'm not encouraging folks to flout this, but one needs to be quite specific as to what is required where, and for whom.
arp242 5y ago
Enforced accessibility would be horrible. What if I want to make an application just for me? Or a game or something else where the basic concept isn't fundamentally accessible for blind people? A lot of the open source software I release is for one reason and one reason only: it's useful for me. I generally try to make it a bit useful for others as well, but that's mostly just a nice bonus. I do care about accessibility in general (actually, I've been meaning to ask Matt about accessibility on CLI programs) but it's not really something I think about on these kind of programs, just like I usually don't consider most use cases outside of my own. If someone were to bring it up then I'd see if something could be done (like any other issue people bring up), but this depends on my available time and "if I feel like it" as well. The alternative would be to never release it at all and keep it in my ~/code directory. I think that would be a loss.
- mwcampbell 5y ago
  > (actually, I've been meaning to ask Matt about accessibility on CLI programs Assuming you meant me and not some other Matt, go ahead. In general, I'd say it's pretty hard to make line-oriented CLI programs inaccessible. Screen-oriented (e.g. ncurses-based) programs are, in my experience, harder to use with a screen reader, but still generally not terrible. Anyway, happy to answer any specific questions you have.
  - arp242 5y ago
    Yeah, I meant you :-) Some time ago I was drafting an article on CLI UX principles, and I wondered if there are specific a18y issues or annoyances that could be included. I couldn't find a lot of resources on this. I do remember this old bsdtalk interview from years ago[1] about a Braille user, and what she said pretty much mirrors your comment: "CLI apps are usually really good, curses can be tricky". My feeling was that there wasn't much written about it because there's not much to write about: "it just works". Still, there might be (small) things that might make a difference; as you pointed out in your other reply, it's hard for me to truly "experience" this. I thought it might be a good idea to check in with some people. [1]: bsdtalk.blogspot.com/2008/03/bsdtalk143-bsd-hobbiest-deborah-norling.html
deleted 5y ago
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