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Intel Executive Posts Thunderbolt 5 Photo Then Deletes It: 80 Gbps and Pam-3
- celeritascelery 5y agoWhen compared to internet speeds, the amount of data you can send over local transfer is amazing. I really hope this pans out.
- qwerty456127 5y agoAt the same time my office Internet speed has already exceeded that of SATA.
- dredmorbius 5y agoOffice internet speed, or office LAN speed?
- zbrozek 5y agoMy home internet speed exceeds SATA.
- CyberDildonics 5y agoYou can get more than 750 megabytes per second on your home internet connection? I would love to see a screenshot of that speed test.
- qwerty456127 5y agoOffice Internet speed - it's 10G. The LAN speed actually is less - just 1G because of the on-board NIC - I just don't need more.
- dredmorbius 5y agoThanks. I just checked the SATA spec, and hadn't realised just how slow it is. (High-speed storage I/O has long relied on multiple datapaths / busses, for pretty much just this reason, in dependent of disk I/O standards, going back decades.)
- ninkendo 5y agoI want the holy grail monitor: 38” Ultrawide 144Hz 200+ DPI (retina) HDR For retina-quality DPI like that we’re talking something like 7680x3200, with HDR it’ll be 30 bits per pixel, 144 times per second. Without any compression that’s 106,168,320,000 bits per second, which Thunderbolt 5 can’t handle. I guess I need to wait for Thunderbolt 6.
- ricardobeat 5y agoHDMI 2.1 can already do 8K @ 120hz with only 48Gbps, using DSC, and DisplayPort 2.0 is supposed to handle two or more 4K/8K screens @ 144hz. I think we'll have more trouble getting a GPU that can drive that..
- frontiersummit 5y agoThe older my eyes get, the more I wince when hearing DPI numbers like that. Scaling of UI elements is never as perfect as we pretend it is. For example, getting both GTK and Qt to simultaneously scale properly on my workstation is something I've given up on, nevermind the bios screen (and I'm only at 109 DPI). Shakes fist at cloud
- qwerty456127 5y agoI wonder if one day Thunderbolt+DisplayPort+USB hybrid (what some Type-C ports of today already are) will become the only connection interface we will use. It can replace HDMI (with a small and cheap adapter for HDMI-only displays), PCIex slots, OCuLink (not really an expert on these but why not?) and obviously SATA which already falls out of relevancy quickly. So why do we even need anything but full-featured Thunderbolt ports?
- baybal2 5y agoWe already have one serial signalling method being "pan-standard." It's single mode optics transmission. Optic transmitters already don't care what data exactly, and how is sent through them. The electrical interface in between them, and the main chip is a dumb SERDES, and it does exactly nothing except sending the data as-is. Once on chip, the signal is free to be routed without any special electrical modulation as one wants. Plain SFP+ transmitted are used from Ethernet, to FibreChannel, to Infiniband, to SONET, to 4G CPRI, to HDBaseT. Both fibre, and optics actually got really, really cheap.
- qwerty456127 5y agoSome ISPs even transmit DVB-T2 over the same optical cables thy use use to provide the actual Internet connection.
- wmf 5y agoThe only drawback is that Thunderbolt is fairly expensive and the cables are very expensive.
- baybal2 5y agoWe have one HN member here very adept in matters of interconnect: @deepnotderp Saying from my IC design exposure really many years ago, those ultra fast, and ultra complex short range serial signalling methods are also ultra power hungry. Past the PAM4, signalling over copper hits a power consumption wall where you can no longer get more speed by throwing more transistors at it, because any speed gains from extra signalling complexity start to be offset by the need to reduce the transmitter clock frequency to keep it from melting. I believe PAM4 will be the swan song of sophisticated serial signalling before the industry switches to optics. The industry possibly have one last trump cards in the sleeve: chord signalling, which is currently being developed by Kandabus. It's an extremely complex signalling scheme, with analog signal equalisation, and other signal conditioning techniques bordering on black magic. Its design cost, and complexity may well be higher than going straight to optics.
- cyberge99 5y agoI believe Thunderbolt 4 has a fiber optic spec coming.
- somerandomqaguy 5y agoAs in fiber optic? Apologies for being ignorant, most my experience with with fiber has been with very small runs of OM3 and OM4 as trunks between network switches. But isn't fiber optic cable less tolerant of the kind of abuse that a short USB cable would see? Being throwing into someone's purse or having it repeatedly pulled by the cable or just being folded in half over and over again, stuffed in a pocket and sat on. Is fiber really suitable to replace the kind of short range interconnects USB handles?
- geocrasher 5y agoIf a visitor were to go to such a facility, it's quite likely they'd have to sign an NDA and/or that their phone would be confiscated for the duration of their tour of this new technology. But let an executive in, phone in hand, and he does the very thing they're trying to prevent. Makes me wonder what a Red Team could get away with.
- jayd16 5y agoThere's a good chance its just a marketing strategy.
- fermentation 5y agoMy experience with thunderbolt hubs has been frustrating. These ports and hubs usually advertise Gbps which I then convert to display usage + leftovers for usb data. Thing is, these hubs often have hidden restrictions. For example my thunderbolt 3 hub has support for two displays, but each one can only do 1440p/60hz despite the hdmi 2.0 spec and advertised port throughout being totally capable of pushing 120hz. Also I had to get a usb extension for my wireless mouse dongle due to interference, not sure how they’d fix something like that though.
- chrisseaton 5y ago> my wireless mouse dongle Are there laptops with Thunderbolt but not Bluetooth?
- cjbconnor 5y agoBluetooth mice are often laggy and have a low polling rate
- fikama 5y agoFrom what I heard somewhere you can achieve less latency using a USB dongle than Bluetooth. Bluetooth also can interfere with WiFi. And that mouse could just not support Bluetooth.
- roblabla 5y ago> Bluetooth also can interfere with WiFi. Most wireless mouse/keyboards dongles use ESB (enhanced shockburst), which operates on the same frequency as WiFi and Bluetooth (2.4GhZ). So it may also interfere with wifi.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- qwerty456127 5y ago> Are there laptops with Thunderbolt but not Bluetooth? There probably are desktops with Thunderbolt but not Bluetooth and a wireless keyboard+mouse set is even more relevant to be used with desktop PC than it is with a laptop. In fact I always felt like probably buying a BlueTooth keyboard+mouse for my laptop so I could spare the USB ports for other usage. Never actually bought any because insufficient motivation - wired stuff actually feels enough, and I just bought a good USB hub for more ports. For already about a couple of years I'm using BlueTooth earplugs. This is my first actual experience with BlueTooth. And it is far from perfect - the connection gets dropped every now and then and some times there are serious sound distortions. I've tried more than one headphones brand (never tried really expensive ones though) and many host devices. This makes me very unsure if I actually want anything else BlueTooth.
- walrus01 5y agoPAM4 (not 3) is used a fair bit in lower cost 100GbE optical links these days, for medium distances.
- Gualdrapo 5y agoHow's Thunderbolt going with AMD anyway? Got a 2nd hand Apple Thunderbolt Display in mint condition and really, really cheap, and used it as an excuse to upgrade my 'old' PC. Wanted a sff PC but couldn't find in the area any AMD that offered Thunderbolt.
- wmf 5y agoI think it's still 1-2 years away. Rembrandt and X670 may have USB4.
- leuekwoaj 5y agoYou can buy the ASUS ProArt which has native thunderbolt 4 support. It's a B550 board, but expect some x570's
- IanCutress 5y agoThere are a few AMD motherboards with Thunderbolt, have been since 500 series launch. AnandTech does X570 / B550 overviews that list them.
- nonameiguess 5y agoWhat can actually saturate that kind of a local link? PCIe 4.0 maxes out at 32 Gbps and 5.0 is increasing that to 63 for x16. x32 exists in the spec, but I'm curious what if anything actually implements that? Certainly not any consumer-grade boards.
- wmf 5y agoA Thunderbolt 5 controller would probably have a PCIe 4.0 x4 (64 Gbps) connection to the host.
- Tsiklon 5y agoI would assume that display data carried over TB could come close to saturating it - 4K 120Hz requires a data rate of ~26Gbps. But I think a big main beneficiary here could be in external GPUs. A high performance GPU connected via Thunderbolt 3 currently takes a bit of a performance hit (I could be wrong but I thought in the realm of 10-20%), but if the data rate is doubled perhaps that could be minimal for the current generation of GPUs.
- touisteur 5y agoThought it was giga-transfers? Wikipedia says: Version 3.x: 8 GT/s ×1: 985 MB/s ×16: 15.75 GB/s You can plug a 2x200GbE Mellanox Ethernet controller on 2 PCIe3 16x connectors (linked by a bespoke cable) Version 4.0: 16 GT/s ×1: 1.97 GB/s ×16: 31.5 GB/s I think you can also buy eth controllers that will saturate that.
- rasz 5y ago32 GB/s
- ksec 5y agoSo I assume this could be used in USB5 and DisplayPort 3.0 with 160Gbps? That should allow 8K Res at 120Hz without compression or something like 5K with 240Hz. The certification of Thunderbolt still requires Intel's blessing though. So while it is royalty free and open standard there is still some barrier in getting AMD on board. Although from my view there isn't actually that much of consumer demand for Thunderbolt.