3 ms·

Maybe a rope is more like the wings of a plane than a discrete component. You could have two sets of wings. But is that really a good idea? And climbing is no

by 7952 5y ago

Maybe a rope is more like the wings of a plane than a discrete component. You could have two sets of wings. But is that really a good idea? And climbing is not expected to be 100% safe. In the same way that the single engine in a GA plane can fail and cause a crash. You have to balance the risks with the enjoyment.

WalterBright 5y ago
Every part in the wings is redundant. For example, there are two main wing spars. Each can support the wing. The backup plan for losing the engine is to glide and land. But still, can't fly passenger jets over water with one engine. > You have to balance the risks with the enjoyment. You can take whatever risks you like. But I don't see how having a dual rope subtracts from your enjoyment.
- mnky9800n 5y ago
  I feel like there's different reasons to use a half rope or a single rope. I mean you aren't usually clipping in the same draw on each half rope anyways because a) putting both ropes in the same draw can cause them to cut each other from frictional shearing on a fall, and b) the fall will be really hard, and perhaps could injure you, since you fall on two springs instead of one. I assume you know this because you are so safety considerate.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    I don't know much about modern climbing technology. But when I see: 1. somebody hanging on to a cliff with their fingernails and toenails, no safety rope 2. betting their life on a piton that may have a crack in it, or the rock may be soft, or the rock has a fault in it and may spall 3. betting on a single rope which may have an undetected internal flaw 4. roped to a moron who may fall and pull me off with him (has happened to climbers) it's nope nope nope nope for me. I also stay 10 feet back from a cliff edge, because the extra weight may cause the edge to give way. You guys can do as you like, though. It's a free country!
- pcthrowaway 5y ago
  There's redundancy in modern climbing ropes too. The part that does most of the support is the core. The sheath surrounds and protects the core, but is plenty strong on its own. If the sheath is cut through, the rope won't fail. Even if the core (which is composed of 10-30 strands each capable of supporting your weight) is partially cut through, the rope still won't fail. Of course, you are expected to inspect your rope regularly, and retire it if the core is exposed at all, or if there are signs of core damage. The reason for retiring a rope when the core is exposed is not because it won't hold your weight, it's because there's no longer as much redundancy. Climbing ropes (almost) never fail. There have been very, very, few accidents caused by this. You're more likely to get hit in the head by a falling rock while standing near a rock structure (something that non-climbers regularly do without thinking twice), than for the climbing rope to fail I just looked at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_structural_failures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_structural_fa... and saw that there have been 2 recorded cases of airplane wing failure in the last 20 years. There are probably more 'climbs' where a climber trusts the rope to hold their weight on descent in a single day than there are flights in a year, so I think the integrity of a regularly inspected climbing rope is the least of your concerns (for some additional anecdata, in a 2 hour session at my climbing gym, I might participate in 10 climbs and witness 500)
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    > 2 recorded cases of airplane wing failure in the last 20 years. 1. Pilatus: it's a 1959 design. Likely not a dual load path wing. 2. Grumman Turbo-Mallard: a 1946 design. Likely not a dual load path wing.

by 7952 5y ago

WalterBright 5y ago

Every part in the wings is redundant. For example, there are two main wing spars. Each can support the wing. The backup plan for losing the engine is to glide and land. But still, can't fly passenger jets over water with one engine. > You have to balance the risks with the enjoyment. You can take whatever risks you like. But I don't see how having a dual rope subtracts from your enjoyment.

mnky9800n 5y ago
I feel like there's different reasons to use a half rope or a single rope. I mean you aren't usually clipping in the same draw on each half rope anyways because a) putting both ropes in the same draw can cause them to cut each other from frictional shearing on a fall, and b) the fall will be really hard, and perhaps could injure you, since you fall on two springs instead of one. I assume you know this because you are so safety considerate.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  I don't know much about modern climbing technology. But when I see: 1. somebody hanging on to a cliff with their fingernails and toenails, no safety rope 2. betting their life on a piton that may have a crack in it, or the rock may be soft, or the rock has a fault in it and may spall 3. betting on a single rope which may have an undetected internal flaw 4. roped to a moron who may fall and pull me off with him (has happened to climbers) it's nope nope nope nope for me. I also stay 10 feet back from a cliff edge, because the extra weight may cause the edge to give way. You guys can do as you like, though. It's a free country!
pcthrowaway 5y ago
There's redundancy in modern climbing ropes too. The part that does most of the support is the core. The sheath surrounds and protects the core, but is plenty strong on its own. If the sheath is cut through, the rope won't fail. Even if the core (which is composed of 10-30 strands each capable of supporting your weight) is partially cut through, the rope still won't fail. Of course, you are expected to inspect your rope regularly, and retire it if the core is exposed at all, or if there are signs of core damage. The reason for retiring a rope when the core is exposed is not because it won't hold your weight, it's because there's no longer as much redundancy. Climbing ropes (almost) never fail. There have been very, very, few accidents caused by this. You're more likely to get hit in the head by a falling rock while standing near a rock structure (something that non-climbers regularly do without thinking twice), than for the climbing rope to fail I just looked at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_structural_failures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_structural_fa... and saw that there have been 2 recorded cases of airplane wing failure in the last 20 years. There are probably more 'climbs' where a climber trusts the rope to hold their weight on descent in a single day than there are flights in a year, so I think the integrity of a regularly inspected climbing rope is the least of your concerns (for some additional anecdata, in a 2 hour session at my climbing gym, I might participate in 10 climbs and witness 500)
- WalterBright 5y ago
  > 2 recorded cases of airplane wing failure in the last 20 years. 1. Pilatus: it's a 1959 design. Likely not a dual load path wing. 2. Grumman Turbo-Mallard: a 1946 design. Likely not a dual load path wing.