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Just wait till you have kids. You'll look back on this time as a paradise of freedom.

by ProjectArcturis 5y ago

postoak 5y ago
Or don't have them =)
- nautilius 5y ago
  Comments like this always remind me of the interview with some kids dumpster diving behind some grocery store that I read many years ago: “Look at all those suckers going into the store to buy stuff with money, when you can just pick it up for free behind the store. Idiots!”
  - postoak 5y ago
    That is a funny quote, but I don't think it's the same as questioning the idea that everyone needs to have kids. Going to the dumpster is a bad idea if you value your health for everyone, but not having kids isn't clearly bad unless you only think of having kids in economic/religious terms (need to produce more workers/believers, or having support in old age).
    - nautilius 5y ago
      I think you’re missing the point of the funny quote: both decisions don’t work if everyone acts like that, both rely on everyone else (or a vast majority) to do the ‘right thing’. If no one buys in the grocery store, there will soon be no grocery store to dumpster dive behind. If no one has kids, there will be no one to pay into health insurance, social security or take care of you when you’re old. Would you be willing from now on to only accept services from people and technology older than you are? This isn’t an economic decision, this is survival of the species. Both decisions are, of course, personal, and I don’t judge. But I think a personal choice that relies on externalities and someone else footing the bill could maybe dial down the smugness a notch.
      - nate_meurer 5y ago
        I missed it too, thanks for coming back to explain.
aiisjustanif 5y ago
That sounds depressing.
burlesona 5y ago
I wouldn’t say “paradise” of freedom. Definitely more flexibility without kids, but kids bring so much joy and meaning to life. For most people it’s a very worthwhile trade.
- visarga 5y ago
  "All Joy and No Fun"
- cushychicken 5y ago
  Yeah I fuggin hate the "just you wait" attitude about kids. I'm excited to have kids, even in spite of the tradeoff involved in my spare time. I don't need endless reminders of the tradeoff. That's just piling on.
  - burlesona 5y ago
    Since you replied as such, I’ll just add: I’ve found that being a parent has made me much better at time management, and as a result my productivity today is higher than it was in my 20s, even though I have less free time. I’ve heard this same experience from many other parents. I’m sure it’s not universal, but if you’re so motivated there’s a good chance you can have a vibrant career and also a great family life with kids. Cheers and good luck when the time comes :)
  - nate_meurer 5y ago
    @burlesona said it well, and I'll make a stronger statement: my kids gave my life meaning far beyond what it had before. Everything I do, and the way it do it, changed for the better, even though my parenting itself has often come up short. Be excited, and don't worry about the tradeoffs. For me, they weren't tradeoffs at all given the magnitude of the reward.
  - TeMPOraL 5y ago
    It's both. Let's not lie to ourselves: kids are demanding. There are moments when I hate my life (usually when I'm falling behind on work, errands and sleep, simultaneously). But then, one minute I'm feeling sorry for myself, and the next minute my daughter does something silly or touching, and I suddenly feel like the happiest, luckiest man on the planet. Looking back, I'd say the perfect time for a kid is the earliest moment when you feel you have control over your life and yourself. I.e. if you know you're struggling with personality/emotional/mental problems, try to sort this out first. Other than that, it's better to have them early, when you're still full of energy: it'll make confronting the challenges easier, and leave you more energy to enjoy the rewards :). But it's still true: all time management problems look serious until you have your first kid. This will teach you about prioritizing real quick - but also will shift your priorities, so it doesn't hurt as much as it sounds. For example, before becoming a parent, I was worrying I'd be depressed over not having time for my side projects. And indeed, I have almost no time for them[0]. But I also feel much less need for them. The desire for independent creative expression is still there, but the daily challenges of parenthood often tickle similar areas of the brain - the kind of how artificial sweetener can substitute for sugar without being the real thing (and also makes you feel better). -- [0] - I'm hoping that when my daughter is old enough to communicate verbally and reliably keep attention on a single thing for more than 30 seconds, I can get her involved in helping me with tinkering in stuff. But that's still years away.
outworlder 5y ago
> till Let's replace "until" with "if". Otherwise that's a pretty ironic comment, given we are discussing an article titled "Your lifestyle has already been designed"
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  That's a pretty uncharitable nitpick. I think we all knew what the parent meant.

Just wait till you have kids. You'll look back on this time as a paradise of freedom.

postoak 5y ago

Or don't have them =)

nautilius 5y ago
Comments like this always remind me of the interview with some kids dumpster diving behind some grocery store that I read many years ago: “Look at all those suckers going into the store to buy stuff with money, when you can just pick it up for free behind the store. Idiots!”
- postoak 5y ago
  That is a funny quote, but I don't think it's the same as questioning the idea that everyone needs to have kids. Going to the dumpster is a bad idea if you value your health for everyone, but not having kids isn't clearly bad unless you only think of having kids in economic/religious terms (need to produce more workers/believers, or having support in old age).
  - nautilius 5y ago
    I think you’re missing the point of the funny quote: both decisions don’t work if everyone acts like that, both rely on everyone else (or a vast majority) to do the ‘right thing’. If no one buys in the grocery store, there will soon be no grocery store to dumpster dive behind. If no one has kids, there will be no one to pay into health insurance, social security or take care of you when you’re old. Would you be willing from now on to only accept services from people and technology older than you are? This isn’t an economic decision, this is survival of the species. Both decisions are, of course, personal, and I don’t judge. But I think a personal choice that relies on externalities and someone else footing the bill could maybe dial down the smugness a notch.
    - nate_meurer 5y ago
      I missed it too, thanks for coming back to explain.

aiisjustanif 5y ago

That sounds depressing.

burlesona 5y ago

I wouldn’t say “paradise” of freedom. Definitely more flexibility without kids, but kids bring so much joy and meaning to life. For most people it’s a very worthwhile trade.

visarga 5y ago
"All Joy and No Fun"
cushychicken 5y ago
Yeah I fuggin hate the "just you wait" attitude about kids. I'm excited to have kids, even in spite of the tradeoff involved in my spare time. I don't need endless reminders of the tradeoff. That's just piling on.
- burlesona 5y ago
  Since you replied as such, I’ll just add: I’ve found that being a parent has made me much better at time management, and as a result my productivity today is higher than it was in my 20s, even though I have less free time. I’ve heard this same experience from many other parents. I’m sure it’s not universal, but if you’re so motivated there’s a good chance you can have a vibrant career and also a great family life with kids. Cheers and good luck when the time comes :)
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  @burlesona said it well, and I'll make a stronger statement: my kids gave my life meaning far beyond what it had before. Everything I do, and the way it do it, changed for the better, even though my parenting itself has often come up short. Be excited, and don't worry about the tradeoffs. For me, they weren't tradeoffs at all given the magnitude of the reward.
- TeMPOraL 5y ago
  It's both. Let's not lie to ourselves: kids are demanding. There are moments when I hate my life (usually when I'm falling behind on work, errands and sleep, simultaneously). But then, one minute I'm feeling sorry for myself, and the next minute my daughter does something silly or touching, and I suddenly feel like the happiest, luckiest man on the planet. Looking back, I'd say the perfect time for a kid is the earliest moment when you feel you have control over your life and yourself. I.e. if you know you're struggling with personality/emotional/mental problems, try to sort this out first. Other than that, it's better to have them early, when you're still full of energy: it'll make confronting the challenges easier, and leave you more energy to enjoy the rewards :). But it's still true: all time management problems look serious until you have your first kid. This will teach you about prioritizing real quick - but also will shift your priorities, so it doesn't hurt as much as it sounds. For example, before becoming a parent, I was worrying I'd be depressed over not having time for my side projects. And indeed, I have almost no time for them[0]. But I also feel much less need for them. The desire for independent creative expression is still there, but the daily challenges of parenthood often tickle similar areas of the brain - the kind of how artificial sweetener can substitute for sugar without being the real thing (and also makes you feel better). -- [0] - I'm hoping that when my daughter is old enough to communicate verbally and reliably keep attention on a single thing for more than 30 seconds, I can get her involved in helping me with tinkering in stuff. But that's still years away.

outworlder 5y ago

> till Let's replace "until" with "if". Otherwise that's a pretty ironic comment, given we are discussing an article titled "Your lifestyle has already been designed"

nate_meurer 5y ago
That's a pretty uncharitable nitpick. I think we all knew what the parent meant.