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> The ultimate tool for corporations to sustain a culture of this sort is to develop the 40-hour workweek as the normal lifestyle. Under these working condition

> The ultimate tool for corporations to sustain a culture of this sort is to develop the 40-hour workweek as the normal lifestyle. Under these working conditions people have to build a life in the evenings and on weekends. I slightly disagree with this point. The 40 hour work week is a rather recent development; in the past, people had to work a lot longer with no or only one day of. The trend actually goes in the direction of reducing it further (at least here in Germany), where 35 or 32 hour weeks are getting more common (depending on the job, of course). Plus, there are alternative models, such as 4x 10h days + 3 days off. Sure, the current model serves corporations, but it is by no means their invention. And while they are a big part of why it still is so large, the reason is most likely that they need the labor hours, not the specific consumption behavior.

tresil 5y ago
Agreed. There’s quite a bit of evidence that the 40hr work week has a lot to do with our human tendency to compete. Here’s a relevant 3min podcast on the topic (also transcribed). https://www.npr.org/2015/08/13/432122637/keynes-predicted-we-would-be-working-15-hour-weeks-why-was-he-so-wrong https://www.npr.org/2015/08/13/432122637/keynes-predicted-we...
noir_lord 5y ago
> The 40 hour work week is a rather recent development; in the past, people had to work a lot longer with no or only one day of. At a point in time, hours worked where often lower in pre-industrial times. http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_w...
slv77 5y ago
Longer work weeks we’re mostly confined to Industrial Age city populations that didn’t have access to land to farm. Few laborers working in early industrial mills was doing so because it was easier then farming. Agfa, Foraging and hunter-gatherer populations, work about 20 hours per week and transitioning to farming increased working hours. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190520115646.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190520115646.h... !Kung spend 40 to 45 hours on food gathering and prep between women and men. https://www.google.com/amp/s/fistfulofscience.wordpress.com/2010/10/12/the-affluence-of-the-kung-san-has-been-greatly-exaggerated/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/fistfulofscience.wordpress.com/...
- namdnay 5y ago
  And hunter gatherers lived to what age, 40? And you’re skipping a few thousands of years of civilization between hunter gatherers and the industrial revolution. I can guarantee a Roman or medieval farmer worked pretty much every hour of sunlight
  - deepnotderp 5y ago
    > And hunter gatherers lived to what age, 40? Transitioning to farming is what dropped lifespans. https://theconversation.com/hunter-gatherers-live-nearly-as-long-as-we-do-but-with-limited-access-to-healthcare-104157 https://theconversation.com/hunter-gatherers-live-nearly-as-...
    - namdnay 5y ago
      It says in your article that life expectancy at birth was 25 years for hunter gatherers societies. Now that’s in great part due to infant mortality, but where does this lower infant mortality come from? Advanced civilization with doctors, medicines and machines that can keep mothers and babies alive,
      - deepnotderp 5y ago
        Not really, it’s due to healthier moms and sanitation, as evidenced by socioeconomic disparities in infant mortality and higher infant mortality in the U.S. relative to other developed countries. The U.S. example in particular refutes your “overwork = good” thesis
  - tome 5y ago
    "Hunter-gatherers do not experience short, nasty, and brutish lives ... there appears to be a characteristic life span for Homo sapiens, in that on average, human bodies function well for about seven decades." https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007%2F978-3-319-16999-6_2352-1 https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007%2F978-3... Encyclopedia of Evolutionary Psychological Science
  - 5y ago
z3ncyberpunk 5y ago
Yes because of the rule of law, if corporations out of their way we would be working 24/7 and disposed of and replaced when we ultimately keel over. Nothing about corporations, their corruption, or modern predatory capitalism is to be admired, so please stop
heavyset_go 5y ago
People worked fewer hours in preindustrial society[1], and people had more time off, as well. [1] http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_w...

tresil 5y ago

Agreed. There’s quite a bit of evidence that the 40hr work week has a lot to do with our human tendency to compete. Here’s a relevant 3min podcast on the topic (also transcribed). https://www.npr.org/2015/08/13/432122637/keynes-predicted-we-would-be-working-15-hour-weeks-why-was-he-so-wrong https://www.npr.org/2015/08/13/432122637/keynes-predicted-we...

noir_lord 5y ago

> The 40 hour work week is a rather recent development; in the past, people had to work a lot longer with no or only one day of. At a point in time, hours worked where often lower in pre-industrial times. http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_w...

slv77 5y ago

Longer work weeks we’re mostly confined to Industrial Age city populations that didn’t have access to land to farm. Few laborers working in early industrial mills was doing so because it was easier then farming. Agfa, Foraging and hunter-gatherer populations, work about 20 hours per week and transitioning to farming increased working hours. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190520115646.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190520115646.h... !Kung spend 40 to 45 hours on food gathering and prep between women and men. https://www.google.com/amp/s/fistfulofscience.wordpress.com/2010/10/12/the-affluence-of-the-kung-san-has-been-greatly-exaggerated/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/fistfulofscience.wordpress.com/...

namdnay 5y ago
And hunter gatherers lived to what age, 40? And you’re skipping a few thousands of years of civilization between hunter gatherers and the industrial revolution. I can guarantee a Roman or medieval farmer worked pretty much every hour of sunlight
- deepnotderp 5y ago
  > And hunter gatherers lived to what age, 40? Transitioning to farming is what dropped lifespans. https://theconversation.com/hunter-gatherers-live-nearly-as-long-as-we-do-but-with-limited-access-to-healthcare-104157 https://theconversation.com/hunter-gatherers-live-nearly-as-...
  - namdnay 5y ago
    It says in your article that life expectancy at birth was 25 years for hunter gatherers societies. Now that’s in great part due to infant mortality, but where does this lower infant mortality come from? Advanced civilization with doctors, medicines and machines that can keep mothers and babies alive,
    - deepnotderp 5y ago
      Not really, it’s due to healthier moms and sanitation, as evidenced by socioeconomic disparities in infant mortality and higher infant mortality in the U.S. relative to other developed countries. The U.S. example in particular refutes your “overwork = good” thesis
- tome 5y ago
  "Hunter-gatherers do not experience short, nasty, and brutish lives ... there appears to be a characteristic life span for Homo sapiens, in that on average, human bodies function well for about seven decades." https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007%2F978-3-319-16999-6_2352-1 https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007%2F978-3... Encyclopedia of Evolutionary Psychological Science
- 5y ago

z3ncyberpunk 5y ago

Yes because of the rule of law, if corporations out of their way we would be working 24/7 and disposed of and replaced when we ultimately keel over. Nothing about corporations, their corruption, or modern predatory capitalism is to be admired, so please stop

heavyset_go 5y ago

People worked fewer hours in preindustrial society[1], and people had more time off, as well. [1] http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_w...