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> San Francisco does not have the highest average incomes in the world. Are you joking? I seriously can't tell. Focusing just on worker's wages, when there ar

> San Francisco does not have the highest average incomes in the world. Are you joking? I seriously can't tell. Focusing just on worker's wages, when there are billionaire property owners (specifically owners of IP) living around the corner from you, is just ignorant and disingenuous if this really is your argument. Steve Jobs famously paid himself $1 a year, remember? I mean, that's probably why he wore those hippy sandals right? He just couldn't afford more because of his measly wage? A few tech CEO's will pull down the average if they all pull off this wonderful tax trick. Honestly I don't understand why you use these arguments and sources, they seem to me to be completely incompatible with reality. > I recommend you read the article I provided on rent control. You keep mentioning rent-control, but I have never said that it's the measure I am for. You do realize rent-control is not the only policy that a city or government can use and enforce right? I think this 2019 documentary called Push (by Fredrik Gertten) does a great job of showing what is happening to the working classes and their lack of options for affordable housing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWSVG9nsRa4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWSVG9nsRa4

CryptoPunk 5y ago
>>Focusing just on worker's wages, when there are billionaire property owners (specifically owners of IP) living around the corner from you, is just ignorant and disingenuous if this really is your argument. Average incomes within the city are the overwhelming determinant of the demand side of housing supply and demand. A dozen billionaires are not going to materially affect the availability of housing, even if they all buy huge estates. Average income determines what the vast majority of the city's renters are able to afford to pay for rent. In any case, San Francisco is not even in the top 10 for number of billionaires among cities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_number_of_billionaires https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_number_of_bi... >>Honestly I don't understand why you use these arguments and sources, they seem to me to be completely incompatible with reality. I suggest you actually read the article I linked to. It describes what economists at large think of rent control, and what studies on the effects of rent control have found. >>You keep mentioning rent-control, but I have never said that it's the measure I am for. You do realize rent-control is not the only policy that a city or government can use and enforce right? I brought up rent control because you wrote the following, which implies cities with rent control have had a positive experience with it: >>I’d expect the opposite, as you see in countries that have rent and ownership controls.
- ricardobeat 5y ago
  "Economists at large" being a hand picked few and US-centered. Rent control can take many forms: rental caps, incentives/benefits, zoning and housing policies, etc. The view that it's solely a supply-demand equation is way too simplistic. Rent prices are currently falling as much as 10% in Amsterdam despite an extremely strained housing market with a 50k+ deficit on units available vs demand.
  - CryptoPunk 5y ago
    Again, I recommend you read the article, as it specifically mentions polls done involving broad cross-sections of economists, and non-American economists. Instead of assuming the article has no valuable insights, I recommend you read it. >>Rent control can take many forms: rental caps, incentives/benefits, zoning and housing policies, etc. Rent control only takes the form of caps on rent, or caps on rent increases. The other policies you mention are not defined as rent control.
    - ricardobeat 5y ago
      Do you think I decided the article is US-centered just by looking at the URL?
      - CryptoPunk 5y ago
        So you read it, and didn't notice the article provided statistics on the views of economists at large - as opposed to those of a handpicked few - on rent control, or the many mentions of non-American political leaders' and economists' views on rent control? Can you at least admit that the economics field at large opposes rent control?
        cloudfifty 5y ago
        > Can you at least admit that the economics field at large opposes rent control? It's pretty pointless to talk about rent control if one hasn't established what the desired outcome is. An "efficient" market? Affordable housing for the common man? Rent control keeps on providing affordable housing in Europe. Abolishing it would cause the rents to rise (both economists and the people promoting it admits to that) and thus give billions to land lords and property owners. But I guess that's a feature, not a bug?

CryptoPunk 5y ago

>>Focusing just on worker's wages, when there are billionaire property owners (specifically owners of IP) living around the corner from you, is just ignorant and disingenuous if this really is your argument. Average incomes within the city are the overwhelming determinant of the demand side of housing supply and demand. A dozen billionaires are not going to materially affect the availability of housing, even if they all buy huge estates. Average income determines what the vast majority of the city's renters are able to afford to pay for rent. In any case, San Francisco is not even in the top 10 for number of billionaires among cities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_number_of_billionaires https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_number_of_bi... >>Honestly I don't understand why you use these arguments and sources, they seem to me to be completely incompatible with reality. I suggest you actually read the article I linked to. It describes what economists at large think of rent control, and what studies on the effects of rent control have found. >>You keep mentioning rent-control, but I have never said that it's the measure I am for. You do realize rent-control is not the only policy that a city or government can use and enforce right? I brought up rent control because you wrote the following, which implies cities with rent control have had a positive experience with it: >>I’d expect the opposite, as you see in countries that have rent and ownership controls.

ricardobeat 5y ago
"Economists at large" being a hand picked few and US-centered. Rent control can take many forms: rental caps, incentives/benefits, zoning and housing policies, etc. The view that it's solely a supply-demand equation is way too simplistic. Rent prices are currently falling as much as 10% in Amsterdam despite an extremely strained housing market with a 50k+ deficit on units available vs demand.
- CryptoPunk 5y ago
  Again, I recommend you read the article, as it specifically mentions polls done involving broad cross-sections of economists, and non-American economists. Instead of assuming the article has no valuable insights, I recommend you read it. >>Rent control can take many forms: rental caps, incentives/benefits, zoning and housing policies, etc. Rent control only takes the form of caps on rent, or caps on rent increases. The other policies you mention are not defined as rent control.
  - ricardobeat 5y ago
    Do you think I decided the article is US-centered just by looking at the URL?
    - CryptoPunk 5y ago
      So you read it, and didn't notice the article provided statistics on the views of economists at large - as opposed to those of a handpicked few - on rent control, or the many mentions of non-American political leaders' and economists' views on rent control? Can you at least admit that the economics field at large opposes rent control?
      - cloudfifty 5y ago
        > Can you at least admit that the economics field at large opposes rent control? It's pretty pointless to talk about rent control if one hasn't established what the desired outcome is. An "efficient" market? Affordable housing for the common man? Rent control keeps on providing affordable housing in Europe. Abolishing it would cause the rents to rise (both economists and the people promoting it admits to that) and thus give billions to land lords and property owners. But I guess that's a feature, not a bug?