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Here's an idea. If the authorities combated things like this with openness and actually answered the difficult questions maybe people wouldn't be pushed toward
by rob_c 5y ago
Here's an idea.
If the authorities combated things like this with openness and actually answered the difficult questions maybe people wouldn't be pushed towards dis-information through distrust.
Nobody has or should have all of the answers. I'm not expecting a public official to stand up and be a global expert on all things.
But there have been so many lies on both sides now and so much political goal scoring by sport term politicians on both sides I'm not surprised that people turned to social media.
Were all dancing around the elephant in the room that clearly everyone panicked due to china's lies at the start of 2020 and its created a culture of fear and distrust.
The only way of combating bad speech is with more speech. This means actual openness and transparency and talking about how you made decisions. This unfortunately does show how ill prepared governments all were for an actual pandemic which is a bit disappointing but it's good to know that some things are being learned from this.
Even if it is that this isn't smallpocks++...
- kubb 5y agoThe governments would actually need to fund multi billion PR campaigns to combat the disinformation. Apart from the political feasibility there's also the question of return on the investment. If this caused a 5% increase in the number of vaccinations, would it be worthwhile? Even then there'd be people who think these are just two sides, and both of them make good and equally valid points.
- rob_c 5y agoI'm sorry you can't make an argument on return for investment when the military is being organised to roll out the needed vaccinations and the economy is being shutdown due to the outbreak in my mind. Unless the politicians just don't give a dam about educating the population they're trying to save. In not suggesting we can ever change 100% of opinions 100% of the time, but open clear communication is the only proper tool for contering misinformation. Alas we seem to be restoring to the old teachers approach of sit down and shut up or you get the cane for speaking out. Which is damaging for public trust in the long run.
- kubb 5y agoIf it were up to me, the vaccination would be obligatory for everyone worldwide, the virus would become extinct and we'd go back to no masks within a year. mRNA vaccination plants and research would be funded by taxes. That policy and openly communicating it to the public would get my ass shoveled out of any government position within a fortnight of course.
- rob_c 5y agoThat's called totalitarianism m'lord and I'm not sure the proles agree with assessment about the strong need for this and the learned elders have shown there is a lack of a need for this as a blanket policy. Whilst you return to your throne we'll begin inoculation of the at risk groups until the problem goes away.
- tomjen3 5y agoSure it would get you kicked out, but it is unlikely to do anything to hurt the trust of the public at large towards politicans, because you told them the truth. As I read you, and I could be wrong, it appears that your real complaint is that you can only get your strategy through by lying, but lying is bad so we should make lying not bad so you can ram your strategy through. If my reading is right, then it appears to be the same attitude that the plandemic people claim politicians have. A much more honest solution is to end all restrictions once everybody has been offered a vaccine. You take it, or you don't. We can discuss research funding once this is over.
- phreeza 5y agoI agree with most of your points, but "both sides lie" really creates a false equivalence. Conspiracy peddlers are radically further removed from reality than the government/science communicators. Of course they are not perfect, but putting them on the same level as covid deniers is absurd.
- rob_c 5y agoIt is a logical fallacy to ignore an argument because of one small distruth or lie. Now that's out the way... Unfortunately I'm talking about people's emotions and their decision to trust a source of information. This is clearly NOT a purely logical situation. There is a false expectation that govt groups are always correct and don't admit mistakes,even if they were correct as they could be at the time. Failure to own these mistakes publically and discuss the shortcomings and failings puts you into the same level of distrust as a scientist view's a snake oil salesman. I take part on science outreach and one of the most damming things is having to explain when some media celebrity scientist said something utterly stupid and not correct. You then get the envetable "who can i trust" argument and the best way to resolve that is to share more information in a respectable slow and distant way... Aka actually educating people.
- tomp 5y agoGovernment/science communicators spent the first month of the pandemic denying it ("Taiwan doesn't exist", "border closures are racist"), the next month lying ("masks don't work"), and the next year politically bickering ("Trump's vaccine shouldn't be trusted" before election, "Trump's fault that people don't trust the vaccine" now) and downplaying the "lab leak" scenario that is only now acceptable in mainstream media ("acceptable" as in "not cause of banning"). They dug their own hole (and they keep digging).
- phreeza 5y agoMy point stands that what covid deniers put out is worse by orders of magnitude. One could argue that sci/govt should be held to a higher standard than randos on Twitter, and the criticism you put forward is probably valid, but still it is wrong to equate the two.
- kettleballroll 5y ago> Were all dancing around the elephant in the room that clearly everyone panicked due to china's lies at the start of 2020 Given what I've witnessed since the start of the pandemic in my own country, it seems more plausible to me that china's actions are a product of people and states not knowing how to deal with an unknown situation and changing it's course as situations unfold. What are the lies China has told that I'm not aware of?
- rob_c 5y agoProviding the evidence of no human to human transmission in February springs to mind as well as cases increasing perfectly exponentially in the real world for a real viral outbreak for several weeks. Failure to share correct information or worse inventing false data is tantamount to lying unfortunately.
- rob_c 5y agoAlways interesting to see how you can get down voted without evidence to the contrary being provided. I'm very welcome to be told how I'm wrong in this regard but as it stands these concerns alone I raised are on record and points of concern. I'm willing to admit china is sharing better information now. At the same time that they start to blame Australian beef and American imports for the mythical typhoid Mary. Always helps to drip feed enough information to get slapped on the wrist by the WHO for not fully cooperating rather than standing to be accused of not taking part...