5 ms·

So send in a patch.

vanviegen 5y ago
Your preferred solution to this inconsistency is for a random bystander to flip a coin?
asimpletune 5y ago
I don’t know why this is getting downvoted. It’s the correct solution and actually a great opportunity to make an easy contribution to open source.
- wpietri 5y ago
  It's not the correct solution because it requires knowledge of the intent of the project leaders, which is not easily available to us. A much better response would be, "Thanks for pointing that out! I have filed an issue." One can't simultaneously through shade for not being community-spirited while expecting other people to do all the work.
  - asimpletune 5y ago
    Submitting a patch would start with filing an issue right? And I assume in that venue the maintainers would clarify their intent. If help were indeed needed then I’m sure the maintainers would be relieved to get some help fixing the documentation but. In any case, the suggestion of submitting a patch when you notice a problem doesn’t deserve downvotes. That’s not throwing shade, at all.
    - wpietri 5y ago
      There are ways to suggest submitting a patch that don't come across as dismissive, as a way to shut down a legitimate complaint. But this wasn't one of them.
      - asimpletune 5y ago
        Ok, and why is that?
        wpietri 5y ago
        I have trouble imagining you can't figure that out on your own. If that's really the case, then take a little time and explain exactly what impact you think that comment would have had on the person they were replying to. Then explore some other ways to actually encourage submitting a patch. Write a couple of them out. If you do that work, I'm glad to try to help you see where their approach falls short in terms of sincerely encouraging contribution.
        asimpletune 5y ago
        > I have trouble imagining you can't figure that out on your own. I'm not being coy, as if I really know what you think, but I'm asking anyway just to be frustrating. I mean, I have an idea, but I also didn't want to make assumptions about your intent, when it's just as easy to ask you to elaborate. After all, it's your point that it was incorrect, so I just wanted to know why. Any way, you said there are "legitimate ways to suggest submitting a patch, but this isn't one" (I'm paraphrasing). To me that didn't really make sense, because that implies one of the wrong ways to suggest submitting a patch is to suggest submitting a patch. > If that's really the case, then take a little time and explain exactly what impact you think that comment would have had on the person they were replying to In my mind, it seems like the effect that it would have on them is to suggest to them to submit a patch. Alternatively, it might also have no effect, because they might not care enough to do anything about it, or just be busy, which is also ok. They don't have to listen to any advice, and it was given in good faith, without malice. I can also imagine a situation where it is technically possible for someone to attribute all sort of weird malice to "so submit a patch" that wasn't actually there. After all, people can feel however they want. However, in my opinion it's quite rude to assume about someone without knowing them that they're such a fragile creature as to invent malcontent where there is, in my eyes, obviously none. So going back to when I said "I have an idea", I meant that yeah I can imagine, after this back and fourth, that maybe you would assume something like this about someone else - that they can't hear "so submit a patch" without taking it en every wrong way possible - but I didn't want to make that assumption without at least giving you the opportunity to explain yourself. Ok, on to exploring other ways to encourage them to submit a patch. You could say, "Do you know you can submit a patch?", "Feel free to submit a patch", "This looks like a documentation bug, would you submit a patch?". All of these also seem fine to me. > If you do that work, I'm glad to try to help you see where their approach falls short in terms of sincerely encouraging contribution. What I don't like about this, personally, is that you're convinced their suggestion wasn't sincere, as if there has to be an ulterior motive. As if believing that a programmer on a startup forum is capable of fixing a documentation bug is so crazy, there can be no other explanation than really they were trying to humiliate the other person. Any way, I do believe that you're trying to be helpful and it's not really that big of a deal so no worries. Hope you can believe me when I say I'm being sincere as well. Basically, a lot of people have different ways of encouraging each other, and there are a lot of different styles of encouragement that people appreciate. It doesn't mean that one you don't agree with is wrong. When I read "so submit a patch", my mind didn't immediately go negative, and I hope the recipient of that didn't either.
  - indymike 5y ago
    > "Thanks for pointing that out! I have filed an issue." This means, here's my problem, someone else fix it for me. Since it has not been fixed for YEARS, maybe not the best alternative if you want to get it fixed.
    - wpietri 5y ago
      If it truly hasn't been fixed for years, then either the people involved haven't noticed or don't care. If the former, filing an issue is helpful. If not, filing a patch may not get anything fixed either.
      - indymike 5y ago
        It is more likely that "the people involved" are working on other things or just don't share your concern. Filing a ticket can be helpful, but a pull request is usually preferred times 10,000. You are right, it is also possible that a change may mot get merged... In which case you've added the feature so the software is more useful to you anyway. Everyone wins.
        wpietri 5y ago
        Everyone wins if I have to maintain my own branch forever just to fix some documentation that I don't need because I figured out what was going on well enough to write a documentation update?
  - jhasse 5y ago
    > I have filed an issue. The Git project has no issue tracker though.

So send in a patch.

Your preferred solution to this inconsistency is for a random bystander to flip a coin?

I don’t know why this is getting downvoted. It’s the correct solution and actually a great opportunity to make an easy contribution to open source.

wpietri 5y ago
It's not the correct solution because it requires knowledge of the intent of the project leaders, which is not easily available to us. A much better response would be, "Thanks for pointing that out! I have filed an issue." One can't simultaneously through shade for not being community-spirited while expecting other people to do all the work.
- asimpletune 5y ago
  Submitting a patch would start with filing an issue right? And I assume in that venue the maintainers would clarify their intent. If help were indeed needed then I’m sure the maintainers would be relieved to get some help fixing the documentation but. In any case, the suggestion of submitting a patch when you notice a problem doesn’t deserve downvotes. That’s not throwing shade, at all.
  - wpietri 5y ago
    There are ways to suggest submitting a patch that don't come across as dismissive, as a way to shut down a legitimate complaint. But this wasn't one of them.
    - asimpletune 5y ago
      Ok, and why is that?
      - wpietri 5y ago
        I have trouble imagining you can't figure that out on your own. If that's really the case, then take a little time and explain exactly what impact you think that comment would have had on the person they were replying to. Then explore some other ways to actually encourage submitting a patch. Write a couple of them out. If you do that work, I'm glad to try to help you see where their approach falls short in terms of sincerely encouraging contribution.
        asimpletune 5y ago
        > I have trouble imagining you can't figure that out on your own. I'm not being coy, as if I really know what you think, but I'm asking anyway just to be frustrating. I mean, I have an idea, but I also didn't want to make assumptions about your intent, when it's just as easy to ask you to elaborate. After all, it's your point that it was incorrect, so I just wanted to know why. Any way, you said there are "legitimate ways to suggest submitting a patch, but this isn't one" (I'm paraphrasing). To me that didn't really make sense, because that implies one of the wrong ways to suggest submitting a patch is to suggest submitting a patch. > If that's really the case, then take a little time and explain exactly what impact you think that comment would have had on the person they were replying to In my mind, it seems like the effect that it would have on them is to suggest to them to submit a patch. Alternatively, it might also have no effect, because they might not care enough to do anything about it, or just be busy, which is also ok. They don't have to listen to any advice, and it was given in good faith, without malice. I can also imagine a situation where it is technically possible for someone to attribute all sort of weird malice to "so submit a patch" that wasn't actually there. After all, people can feel however they want. However, in my opinion it's quite rude to assume about someone without knowing them that they're such a fragile creature as to invent malcontent where there is, in my eyes, obviously none. So going back to when I said "I have an idea", I meant that yeah I can imagine, after this back and fourth, that maybe you would assume something like this about someone else - that they can't hear "so submit a patch" without taking it en every wrong way possible - but I didn't want to make that assumption without at least giving you the opportunity to explain yourself. Ok, on to exploring other ways to encourage them to submit a patch. You could say, "Do you know you can submit a patch?", "Feel free to submit a patch", "This looks like a documentation bug, would you submit a patch?". All of these also seem fine to me. > If you do that work, I'm glad to try to help you see where their approach falls short in terms of sincerely encouraging contribution. What I don't like about this, personally, is that you're convinced their suggestion wasn't sincere, as if there has to be an ulterior motive. As if believing that a programmer on a startup forum is capable of fixing a documentation bug is so crazy, there can be no other explanation than really they were trying to humiliate the other person. Any way, I do believe that you're trying to be helpful and it's not really that big of a deal so no worries. Hope you can believe me when I say I'm being sincere as well. Basically, a lot of people have different ways of encouraging each other, and there are a lot of different styles of encouragement that people appreciate. It doesn't mean that one you don't agree with is wrong. When I read "so submit a patch", my mind didn't immediately go negative, and I hope the recipient of that didn't either.
- indymike 5y ago
  > "Thanks for pointing that out! I have filed an issue." This means, here's my problem, someone else fix it for me. Since it has not been fixed for YEARS, maybe not the best alternative if you want to get it fixed.
  - wpietri 5y ago
    If it truly hasn't been fixed for years, then either the people involved haven't noticed or don't care. If the former, filing an issue is helpful. If not, filing a patch may not get anything fixed either.
    - indymike 5y ago
      It is more likely that "the people involved" are working on other things or just don't share your concern. Filing a ticket can be helpful, but a pull request is usually preferred times 10,000. You are right, it is also possible that a change may mot get merged... In which case you've added the feature so the software is more useful to you anyway. Everyone wins.
      - wpietri 5y ago
        Everyone wins if I have to maintain my own branch forever just to fix some documentation that I don't need because I figured out what was going on well enough to write a documentation update?
- jhasse 5y ago
  > I have filed an issue. The Git project has no issue tracker though.