5 ms·

> The highest rental rates in the world are in the city with the most ownership controls to prevents developers and landlords from profiting: San Francisco. Co

> The highest rental rates in the world are in the city with the most ownership controls to prevents developers and landlords from profiting: San Francisco. Correlation is not causation. The reason rents are high in San Francisco is because it's where the 'owners' of a bunch of high-tech Intellectual Property live. Labor aristocrats have to move there to be able to work on that tech. That is what has driven up the rents.

frogpelt 5y ago
You make it sound like you don't think people (or corporations) should be able to own property. I hate to burst your bubble, but someone is going to own the property. And if you insist on it being the government, you are going to severely disappointed by what happens next.
- wizzwizz4 5y ago
  > You make it sound like you don't think people (or corporations) should be able to own property. Ideas aren't property. Copyright law, patent law, trademark law, service mark law… they used to be very different to property law, and for good reason. “Intellectual property” is the power to silence your critics, sue your competitors and profit from other people's work – if you have enough money to throw your weight around. (Contrast with copyright, which lets you get a cut from those publishing your work; or trademark, which protects your professional reputation…)
CryptoPunk 5y ago
>>Correlation is not causation. The reason rents are high in San Francisco is because it's where the 'owners' of a bunch of high-tech Intellectual Property live. San Francisco does not have the highest average incomes in the world. What puts SF at the top of the rent rankings is the combination of high average incomes, and the most restrictive housing market in the US. I recommend you read the article I provided on rent control.
- beckman466 5y ago
  > San Francisco does not have the highest average incomes in the world. Are you joking? I seriously can't tell. Focusing just on worker's wages, when there are billionaire property owners (specifically owners of IP) living around the corner from you, is just ignorant and disingenuous if this really is your argument. Steve Jobs famously paid himself $1 a year, remember? I mean, that's probably why he wore those hippy sandals right? He just couldn't afford more because of his measly wage? A few tech CEO's will pull down the average if they all pull off this wonderful tax trick. Honestly I don't understand why you use these arguments and sources, they seem to me to be completely incompatible with reality. > I recommend you read the article I provided on rent control. You keep mentioning rent-control, but I have never said that it's the measure I am for. You do realize rent-control is not the only policy that a city or government can use and enforce right? I think this 2019 documentary called Push (by Fredrik Gertten) does a great job of showing what is happening to the working classes and their lack of options for affordable housing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWSVG9nsRa4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWSVG9nsRa4
  - CryptoPunk 5y ago
    >>Focusing just on worker's wages, when there are billionaire property owners (specifically owners of IP) living around the corner from you, is just ignorant and disingenuous if this really is your argument. Average incomes within the city are the overwhelming determinant of the demand side of housing supply and demand. A dozen billionaires are not going to materially affect the availability of housing, even if they all buy huge estates. Average income determines what the vast majority of the city's renters are able to afford to pay for rent. In any case, San Francisco is not even in the top 10 for number of billionaires among cities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_number_of_billionaires https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_number_of_bi... >>Honestly I don't understand why you use these arguments and sources, they seem to me to be completely incompatible with reality. I suggest you actually read the article I linked to. It describes what economists at large think of rent control, and what studies on the effects of rent control have found. >>You keep mentioning rent-control, but I have never said that it's the measure I am for. You do realize rent-control is not the only policy that a city or government can use and enforce right? I brought up rent control because you wrote the following, which implies cities with rent control have had a positive experience with it: >>I’d expect the opposite, as you see in countries that have rent and ownership controls.

frogpelt 5y ago

You make it sound like you don't think people (or corporations) should be able to own property. I hate to burst your bubble, but someone is going to own the property. And if you insist on it being the government, you are going to severely disappointed by what happens next.

wizzwizz4 5y ago
> You make it sound like you don't think people (or corporations) should be able to own property. Ideas aren't property. Copyright law, patent law, trademark law, service mark law… they used to be very different to property law, and for good reason. “Intellectual property” is the power to silence your critics, sue your competitors and profit from other people's work – if you have enough money to throw your weight around. (Contrast with copyright, which lets you get a cut from those publishing your work; or trademark, which protects your professional reputation…)

CryptoPunk 5y ago

>>Correlation is not causation. The reason rents are high in San Francisco is because it's where the 'owners' of a bunch of high-tech Intellectual Property live. San Francisco does not have the highest average incomes in the world. What puts SF at the top of the rent rankings is the combination of high average incomes, and the most restrictive housing market in the US. I recommend you read the article I provided on rent control.

beckman466 5y ago
> San Francisco does not have the highest average incomes in the world. Are you joking? I seriously can't tell. Focusing just on worker's wages, when there are billionaire property owners (specifically owners of IP) living around the corner from you, is just ignorant and disingenuous if this really is your argument. Steve Jobs famously paid himself $1 a year, remember? I mean, that's probably why he wore those hippy sandals right? He just couldn't afford more because of his measly wage? A few tech CEO's will pull down the average if they all pull off this wonderful tax trick. Honestly I don't understand why you use these arguments and sources, they seem to me to be completely incompatible with reality. > I recommend you read the article I provided on rent control. You keep mentioning rent-control, but I have never said that it's the measure I am for. You do realize rent-control is not the only policy that a city or government can use and enforce right? I think this 2019 documentary called Push (by Fredrik Gertten) does a great job of showing what is happening to the working classes and their lack of options for affordable housing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWSVG9nsRa4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWSVG9nsRa4
- CryptoPunk 5y ago
  >>Focusing just on worker's wages, when there are billionaire property owners (specifically owners of IP) living around the corner from you, is just ignorant and disingenuous if this really is your argument. Average incomes within the city are the overwhelming determinant of the demand side of housing supply and demand. A dozen billionaires are not going to materially affect the availability of housing, even if they all buy huge estates. Average income determines what the vast majority of the city's renters are able to afford to pay for rent. In any case, San Francisco is not even in the top 10 for number of billionaires among cities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_number_of_billionaires https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_number_of_bi... >>Honestly I don't understand why you use these arguments and sources, they seem to me to be completely incompatible with reality. I suggest you actually read the article I linked to. It describes what economists at large think of rent control, and what studies on the effects of rent control have found. >>You keep mentioning rent-control, but I have never said that it's the measure I am for. You do realize rent-control is not the only policy that a city or government can use and enforce right? I brought up rent control because you wrote the following, which implies cities with rent control have had a positive experience with it: >>I’d expect the opposite, as you see in countries that have rent and ownership controls.