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On Google translate you can test new phonetic spelling. "Wii shäl miit tu dei in Nyy Jork" works best in Polish, Icelandic and Finnish. I suggest we just ignore

On Google translate you can test new phonetic spelling. "Wii shäl miit tu dei in Nyy Jork" works best in Polish, Icelandic and Finnish. I suggest we just ignore weird sounds like θ and ð and just use "th" as "thö" sounds reasonably good in those languages.

timonoko 5y ago
Correction: those languages seem to have already "th" == "θ".
- tuukkah 5y ago
  That's weird as "th" is pronounced "th" in Finnish and there is no "θ" sound: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_phonology#Consonants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_phonology#Consonants
  - juki 5y ago
    "th" isn't really used in Finnish (at least in modern kirjakieli). Even loan words just drop the "h" (e.g. "termostaatti"). There probably are some exceptions, but none that I can think of right now.
    - sampo 5y ago
      Finnish has only 3 words, all loanwords that didn't drop the h: thai (+ thai food, thai boxing etc), theeta (name of the Greek letter) and thorax (medical term, common word is rintakehä). https://www.kielitoimistonsanakirja.fi/#/th?searchMode=all https://www.kielitoimistonsanakirja.fi/#/th?searchMode=all
      - tuukkah 5y ago
        That's surprising to me, perhaps because "th" appears in inflected words such as "ovathan", dialectal words such as "vasthaan", compound words such as "oluthana" and names such as "Elisabeth" or "Porthania". Also, I wonder what's the share of the pronounciations "t", "th" and "θ" in the word "theremin". (You can download a list of word forms encountered in some selected written texts here: https://kaino.kotus.fi/sanat/taajuuslista/parole.php https://kaino.kotus.fi/sanat/taajuuslista/parole.php)
        sampo 5y ago
        I only searched for 'th' in the beginning of the word. We can add these to the previous result: triathlon, smoothie, maybe also apartheid Also the dictionary finds huithapeli, häthätää, rustholli, but I don't think these have 'th' as a phoneme. https://www.kielitoimistonsanakirja.fi/#/*th*?searchMode=only-non-compounds https://www.kielitoimistonsanakirja.fi/#/*th*?searchMode=onl...
        tuukkah 5y ago
        Nice new findings in the dictionary! What do you mean by having 'th' as a phoneme? If you mean the sound "θ", I don't think any of the words are pronounced with one in Finnish, typically. Rather, they have a "t" sound followed by a "h", or just a "t".
nayuki 5y ago
It would be nice if they used IPA instead of yet another informal nonstandard system.
- timonoko 5y ago
  If you try "Wii shäl miit tu dei in Nyy Jork" in Google, it works quite well in Inglish too, except thö "Nyy Jork". It would be easy to organize meeting of all Anglos and accept this as an alternate spelling. Polish have some weird sibilants, so that it could be the starting point.
  - krisoft 5y ago
    > It would be easy to organize meeting of all Anglos You must be surelly joking there. :)
- arp242 5y ago
  I can understand what's intended with "Wii shäl miit tu dei in Nyy Jork" without even knowing what system is being used. In IPA this is "ʃæl miːt təˈdeɪ ɪn njuː jɔːk", and I have no idea what that says at all. I find IPA fairly inaccessible for the casual user. There's a reason other systems exist.
nindalf 5y ago
Is this comment chain supposed to be related to the story about the teacher who couldn’t read? Seems like a software bug.
- timonoko 5y ago
  Yes. I forgot to explain. I learned to read in one month like any other Finnish child ever. But it took a month longer to understand what I was reading. Like my small brain was using all its capacity in pronunciation and I forgot what I just said. English is like Chinese, you have to learn all pictorials and their meanings. Learning the pronunciation is different process. That is why English takes years and years to learn.

timonoko 5y ago

Correction: those languages seem to have already "th" == "θ".

tuukkah 5y ago
That's weird as "th" is pronounced "th" in Finnish and there is no "θ" sound: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_phonology#Consonants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_phonology#Consonants
- juki 5y ago
  "th" isn't really used in Finnish (at least in modern kirjakieli). Even loan words just drop the "h" (e.g. "termostaatti"). There probably are some exceptions, but none that I can think of right now.
  - sampo 5y ago
    Finnish has only 3 words, all loanwords that didn't drop the h: thai (+ thai food, thai boxing etc), theeta (name of the Greek letter) and thorax (medical term, common word is rintakehä). https://www.kielitoimistonsanakirja.fi/#/th?searchMode=all https://www.kielitoimistonsanakirja.fi/#/th?searchMode=all
    - tuukkah 5y ago
      That's surprising to me, perhaps because "th" appears in inflected words such as "ovathan", dialectal words such as "vasthaan", compound words such as "oluthana" and names such as "Elisabeth" or "Porthania". Also, I wonder what's the share of the pronounciations "t", "th" and "θ" in the word "theremin". (You can download a list of word forms encountered in some selected written texts here: https://kaino.kotus.fi/sanat/taajuuslista/parole.php https://kaino.kotus.fi/sanat/taajuuslista/parole.php)
      - sampo 5y ago
        I only searched for 'th' in the beginning of the word. We can add these to the previous result: triathlon, smoothie, maybe also apartheid Also the dictionary finds huithapeli, häthätää, rustholli, but I don't think these have 'th' as a phoneme. https://www.kielitoimistonsanakirja.fi/#/*th*?searchMode=only-non-compounds https://www.kielitoimistonsanakirja.fi/#/*th*?searchMode=onl...
        tuukkah 5y ago
        Nice new findings in the dictionary! What do you mean by having 'th' as a phoneme? If you mean the sound "θ", I don't think any of the words are pronounced with one in Finnish, typically. Rather, they have a "t" sound followed by a "h", or just a "t".

nayuki 5y ago

It would be nice if they used IPA instead of yet another informal nonstandard system.

timonoko 5y ago
If you try "Wii shäl miit tu dei in Nyy Jork" in Google, it works quite well in Inglish too, except thö "Nyy Jork". It would be easy to organize meeting of all Anglos and accept this as an alternate spelling. Polish have some weird sibilants, so that it could be the starting point.
- krisoft 5y ago
  > It would be easy to organize meeting of all Anglos You must be surelly joking there. :)
arp242 5y ago
I can understand what's intended with "Wii shäl miit tu dei in Nyy Jork" without even knowing what system is being used. In IPA this is "ʃæl miːt təˈdeɪ ɪn njuː jɔːk", and I have no idea what that says at all. I find IPA fairly inaccessible for the casual user. There's a reason other systems exist.

nindalf 5y ago

Is this comment chain supposed to be related to the story about the teacher who couldn’t read? Seems like a software bug.

timonoko 5y ago
Yes. I forgot to explain. I learned to read in one month like any other Finnish child ever. But it took a month longer to understand what I was reading. Like my small brain was using all its capacity in pronunciation and I forgot what I just said. English is like Chinese, you have to learn all pictorials and their meanings. Learning the pronunciation is different process. That is why English takes years and years to learn.