9 ms·

Texas Instruments new TI-84 Plus CE Python graphing calculator

43 points by kensai 5y ago

daniel_iversen 5y ago
Specs and features: https://education.ti.com/en/products/calculators/graphing-calculators/ti-84-plus-ce-python/specifications https://education.ti.com/en/products/calculators/graphing-ca...
- eu 5y ago
  And the guides: https://education.ti.com/guidebook/details/en/1424CF4F539A4DBB9145E2AA89F0FF54/ti-84-plus-ce-python https://education.ti.com/guidebook/details/en/1424CF4F539A4D...
Gys 5y ago
> Available fall 2021. > This next-generation model replaces the TI-84 Plus CE graphing calculator.
- boricj 5y ago
  Next-generation? They've just glued a 48MHz Cortex-M0+ ARM micro-controller with 32 KiB of RAM on the motherboard to act as a co-processor for executing CircuitPython. It's basically a TI-84 Plus CE from 2015 with the TI-Python adapter from 2019 built-in. Given the co-processor's lack of performance and the fact that it's connected through an UART channel, it's just about the slowest, weakest Python implementation in a calculator out there... It's been four years since the introduction of the NumWorks calculator and its Python capabilities and that's the best they can do?
  - mkoryak 5y ago
    They don't really need to do better. They are TI and have a monopoly for "calculators required for class". I have a TI89 from 20 years ago and it still works for doing math from 2021.
    - boricj 5y ago
      A monopoly on the North American high school market perhaps, but over here in Europe the NumWorks, Casio Graph 35+E II and to a lesser extent Casio Graph 90+E are wrecking TI's market share so badly that they had to release the TI-82 Advanced Edition Python (no rechargeable batteries nor USB-OTG capabilities in an old shell) with a significant price drop just to stay competitive. So they really had to do better, just not in the USA so far. The modern replacement for a TI89 would be a TI-Nspire CX II CAS because both were/are high-end CAS calculators. But the TI-84 Plus CE Python in its american middle market segment is an embarrassment and an aberration only sustained by their monopolistic practices. The fact that they can get away with this for new graphical calculators at full price in America is just sad.
    - kergonath 5y ago
      The TI-89 was awesome, though. It isn’t much now anymore, but a decent CAS in a pocket calculator was a big deal. I used it for many years through Physics BSc to a PhD.
    - tempodox 5y ago
      Yep, I love my TI-89 Titanium. Has a USB connection and programming it in C (via TI-GCC) is easy enough. My Game of Life app just eats whatever pixels it finds on the screen and runs at a decent speed. And my disassembler lets me read the OS code :) Thankfully, the TI Connect software is 64-bit, otherwise I'd be screwed.
the-dude 5y ago
Such an odd product space at this time, they'll probably never be used outside of education.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  "Millions of school children will be required to get one every year" is a pretty decent market.
  - eli 5y ago
    As is "on a short list of devices that can be used during certain standardized exams"
    - lasagnaphil 5y ago
      To be honest, I really don’t get why the SAT board allows using calculators anyway. They can certainly make the numbers in the math questions easier to calculate (make it divisible without any weird fractions/decimals). And to be honest if you are somewhere in the pre-calculus/calculus level you should have an intuition of how to roughly draw graphs by hand (without a graphing calculator). It really seems like corruption of the College Board (and many other western educational institutions) at this point...
      - dagw 5y ago
        I really don’t get why the SAT board allows using calculators anyway Especially since (at least in my experience) basically none of the math courses at University level involve a calculator.
        oses 5y ago
        this greatly depends on the university. The first university I went to allowed calculators and required TI nspire for calc 2. When I transferred the second university did not allow graphing calculators and covered half the content in the same period of time. (calc 2 content was covered in calc 1 at first university)
crmrc114 5y ago
Why don't they offer a paid app with their calculator emulated? I keep my various calculator emulators on Android because I love the ease of all my custom TI apps. Would be really nice if they just made a decent Android application for all the engineers out there like me.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > Why don't they offer a paid app with their calculator emulated? Because their main market isn't permitted to have phones on their desks during tests.
  - luke2m 5y ago
    Exactly. If I was not required to, I would never have bought a TI. Gnome Plots or desmos are just so much more convenient.
- baumandm 5y ago
  I'm guessing they view releasing an official calculator app as a move towards eventually replacing the hardware calculator. It could help legitimize a cell phone calculator to schools and exam boards. I'm also guessing their product margins are better on hardware than they would be on software, since there are so many other calculator apps available. The market of people who want a TI-branded calculator app on Android or iOS is a lot smaller than the captive student market. IMHO eventually the tides will shift and school districts and exams will start allowing cell phones, and I imagine just before that happens they will suddenly discover they have a nice Android/iOS app ready to launch.
  - JohnBooty 5y ago
    IMHO eventually the tides will shift and school districts and exams will start allowing cell phones, Why would this happen, and why would it be a good thing?
the_only_law 5y ago
Didn’t they recently remove the ability to run native Z80 binaries in some of their calculators because of concerns of cheating software being distributed? I imagine this will be a pretty locked down Python environment.
- jbluepolarbear 5y ago
  My brother used to make C programs and trade them to other kids for $5. He had one for Algebra 2, Physics, and Pre-Calc. Teachers started wiping calculators before tests, but didn’t remove the binary programs he made. Became a big deal.
  - mattwad 5y ago
    I made an app that showed a fake 'wiped data' screen. Teachers wouldn't think to actually watch me delete the apps lol
    - BitwiseFool 5y ago
      Hah! You did that too?
bernardv 5y ago
It’s been available in Europe for many years.
adenner 5y ago
What version of python will it be? How complete will it be? Also, will you be able to add packages from pip via USB cable?
- rtkwe 5y ago
  A version of Python 3 based off of CircuitPython that they've tweaked. https://blog.adafruit.com/2021/05/20/python-snakes-its-way-to-the-ti-84-plus-ce-python-graphing-calculator-by-texas-instruments-runs-circuitpython-ticalculators/ https://blog.adafruit.com/2021/05/20/python-snakes-its-way-t...
- MPSimmons 5y ago
  Mine is 3.4
Tempest1981 5y ago
More comments here (3 months ago): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27084879 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27084879 (158 comments)
MPSimmons 5y ago
I have one of these. It's essentially Circuit Python (3.4). It has a limited number of libraries, but overall, it's pretty cool. You can include other python files on the calculator, so you can bring your own libraries if you need to.
sparkling 5y ago
Input via the keyboard? Sounds like a rather painful experience.
rel2thr 5y ago
A language with significant white space seems suboptimal for a device with a small screen . I remember fondly my wall of text no indentation TI basic programs
- linux2647 5y ago
  Good use case for using tabs and setting a low tab size. But still
reasonabl_human 5y ago
It blows my mind that TI has such a stranglehold on the educational calculator market. Producing a TI-84 must be a few bucks vs. the >$100 they sold them for when I was in school. Does anybody know of open source alternatives that could be pushed in the classroom? There’s no way they can patent math..
- dharmab 5y ago
  They didn't patent math. They survive for a few reasons: - Standardized testing calculator requirements are crafted in such a way that graphing calculators are allowed by specific model: https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/exam-policies-guidelines/calculator-policies https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/exam-policies-guidelines... - Textbooks contain instructions on using TI calculators (and sometimes, if you're very lucky, Casio). Teachers can only provide personal instruction with TI because that's what the schools buy (presumably thanks to marketing and dealmaking). Math classes are already hard for high schoolers. Having to deal with the disadvantage of being on a different platform from your peers is hard.
  - rdtwo 5y ago
    The problem is that once you hit college you have to give the calculator up and use the scientific calculator for 2 years in the weedout classes
    - isk517 5y ago
      The TI-84 was worth it for how much easier it made doing assignments. The extra screen space and the ability to easily edit the equations you entered and recall past entry probably saved me hundreds of hours. Just need to make sure I was proficient enough with my Casio scientific calculator for tests and exams.
- axegon_ 5y ago
  > Does anybody know of open source alternatives that could be pushed in the classroom? I have no idea to be honest but they wouldn't be that hard to make given the wide choice of portable computational power. Surely wouldn't be all that complicated to 3d print a housing and shove a rpi zero in there or some of it's most powerful cousins. That said, with all the parts and effort I doubt it would come a whole lot cheaper.
pdpi 5y ago
Graphing calculators for school use infuriate me. For the price of a calculator[0] you can instead buy an entry-level Chromebook[1]. You would get a general purpose-ish computer instead of a highly specialised, highly limited, woefully underpowered device. It feels like a weird case of regulatory capture. 0. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Texas-Instruments-84PLCE-TBL-2E5/dp/B01086MEM2/ 1. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dell-Chromebook-3120-3120-7898-Resolution/dp/B016DP0XUW/
- markus_zhang 5y ago
  But maybe someone has a contract with some schools so it's good money.
- dotcommand 5y ago
  People in the UK are forced to buy these calculators also? Thought it was an exclusively US racket. Another hit to american exceptionalism. With the rise of smartphones, I figured I was part of the last generation forced to buy these overpriced TI calculators. It's so sad to see this racket going strong today. You spend $100 ( a lot of money to most people ) on a useless device that you don't ever use again. Never once in college or thereafter have I used my TI calculator.
- seidoger 5y ago
  Calculators are still distraction-free. They're a purpose-build device. Our exams in engineering school took into account we could solve 5 equations/unknowns problems with our TI-92 Plus (at the time). Can't imagine students with Chromebooks during exams (edit: or maybe I'm just from a different time)
  - pdpi 5y ago
    There's good reasons to having a dedicated, more limited device. What bothers me is that the device is a hard requirement for students, which means TI and Casio get to charge unreasonable amounts of money for these calculators that are not reflective of what they'd otherwise be worth. I brought up the Chromebook not so much as a suggested alternative, but as a benchmark for what sort of hardware you can get for the same money when your market isn't completely tied to your product.
CivBase 5y ago
> "Python is a programming language that is easy to get started with, good for beginners" I couldn't disagree more. In my experience, Python is a terribly difficult language for anyone who doesn't already have a solid grasp on common programming concepts. Its syntax is easy to read, but it's chuck-full of features and optimized for experienced developers, not beginners. For example, consider a simple counting loop in C... for(int i = 0; i < 5; i++) { printf("%d\n", i); } That code is a little obtuse, but what it does is very simple. The `for` loop requires three statements - initialization, condition, and iterator. The initialization statement (int i = 0) is only called at the beginning of the loop and is used to define our variable (in this case, i). Next the `for` loop executes the condition statement. If the condition evaluates to true, it executes the body of the loop, then the iterator statement, then jumps back to the condition and tries again. If the condition evaluates to false, it moves on to the next line of code after the `for` loop. In this case, our loop initializes i as 0. The condition `i < 5` means the loop will execute the body until i >= 5. The body simply prints the value of i and, after the body is executed each time, the loop executes our iterator statement which increments i by 1. So long as you understand variables, conditions, arithmetic operators, and the `printf()` function you can figure out a `for` loop in C. Now consider the same thing in Python... for i in range(5): print(i) That code is pretty easy to read, but what does it do? The `for` loop is used to iterate over an "iterable" object, which is a collection of multiple values. The body of the loop is executed for each value in the collection and assigns i a value from the collection for each iteration. In this case, our collection is output by the call to `range(5)`. The body of our loop simply prints the value of i. What's an object? An object is a thing with attributes (variable within the object) and methods (functions within the object). Objects can be values of variables just like any primitive value. What does range do? The builtin function `range` outputs a generator which yields values from the minimum (default 0) to the maximum (in this case 5) at a given step (default 1). The minimum is inclusive but the maximum is not so in this case it will yield 0, 1, 2, 3, and 4. What's a generator? First we need to define "iterator". An iterator is an object which helps to iterate over a collection of values. All iterators have a special `__next__()` method which returns the next value in the collection. When there are no more values left to iterate over in the collection, the `__next__()` method raises a `StopIteration` exception. A generator is a type of iterator which mimics having a collection but instead of holding a collection of values in memory and iterating over them, it generates each value one-at-a-time only when the `__next__()` method is called. In our case, the generator starts at 0 for the first value and adds 1 to the output each time `__next__()` is called. When it reaches 5, instead of returning it raises the `StopIteration` exception. What's an exception? An exception is a mechanism for interrupting execution of code. Instead of continuing to the next line of code, an exception causes the program to exit the call stack one level at a time until it either reaches the top or is caught by something. In our case, the `for` loop catches that `StopIteration` exception for us and uses that to know when to stop. Hopefully you know what the call stack is by now. Yeah, a novice could probably ignore most of this stuff and just take for granted that the body of the loop will get executed for each value in the range 0..n (where n is the value given to `range()`). But this is just one example. Python requires novices to take a lot of things for granted from the start. Its syntax is mostly simple and elegant, but in terms of functionality it hurls developers into the deep end and they often have a hard time staying afloat if they haven't already learned the basics with other languages. ...that said, I'm rather fond of Python and think it's a great fit for programmable calculators for a variety of other reasons. "Good for beginners" just isn't one of them.

43 points by kensai 5y ago

Specs and features: https://education.ti.com/en/products/calculators/graphing-calculators/ti-84-plus-ce-python/specifications https://education.ti.com/en/products/calculators/graphing-ca...

eu 5y ago
And the guides: https://education.ti.com/guidebook/details/en/1424CF4F539A4DBB9145E2AA89F0FF54/ti-84-plus-ce-python https://education.ti.com/guidebook/details/en/1424CF4F539A4D...

Gys 5y ago

> Available fall 2021. > This next-generation model replaces the TI-84 Plus CE graphing calculator.

boricj 5y ago
Next-generation? They've just glued a 48MHz Cortex-M0+ ARM micro-controller with 32 KiB of RAM on the motherboard to act as a co-processor for executing CircuitPython. It's basically a TI-84 Plus CE from 2015 with the TI-Python adapter from 2019 built-in. Given the co-processor's lack of performance and the fact that it's connected through an UART channel, it's just about the slowest, weakest Python implementation in a calculator out there... It's been four years since the introduction of the NumWorks calculator and its Python capabilities and that's the best they can do?
- mkoryak 5y ago
  They don't really need to do better. They are TI and have a monopoly for "calculators required for class". I have a TI89 from 20 years ago and it still works for doing math from 2021.
  - boricj 5y ago
    A monopoly on the North American high school market perhaps, but over here in Europe the NumWorks, Casio Graph 35+E II and to a lesser extent Casio Graph 90+E are wrecking TI's market share so badly that they had to release the TI-82 Advanced Edition Python (no rechargeable batteries nor USB-OTG capabilities in an old shell) with a significant price drop just to stay competitive. So they really had to do better, just not in the USA so far. The modern replacement for a TI89 would be a TI-Nspire CX II CAS because both were/are high-end CAS calculators. But the TI-84 Plus CE Python in its american middle market segment is an embarrassment and an aberration only sustained by their monopolistic practices. The fact that they can get away with this for new graphical calculators at full price in America is just sad.
  - kergonath 5y ago
    The TI-89 was awesome, though. It isn’t much now anymore, but a decent CAS in a pocket calculator was a big deal. I used it for many years through Physics BSc to a PhD.
  - tempodox 5y ago
    Yep, I love my TI-89 Titanium. Has a USB connection and programming it in C (via TI-GCC) is easy enough. My Game of Life app just eats whatever pixels it finds on the screen and runs at a decent speed. And my disassembler lets me read the OS code :) Thankfully, the TI Connect software is 64-bit, otherwise I'd be screwed.

the-dude 5y ago

Such an odd product space at this time, they'll probably never be used outside of education.

ceejayoz 5y ago
"Millions of school children will be required to get one every year" is a pretty decent market.
- eli 5y ago
  As is "on a short list of devices that can be used during certain standardized exams"
  - lasagnaphil 5y ago
    To be honest, I really don’t get why the SAT board allows using calculators anyway. They can certainly make the numbers in the math questions easier to calculate (make it divisible without any weird fractions/decimals). And to be honest if you are somewhere in the pre-calculus/calculus level you should have an intuition of how to roughly draw graphs by hand (without a graphing calculator). It really seems like corruption of the College Board (and many other western educational institutions) at this point...
    - dagw 5y ago
      I really don’t get why the SAT board allows using calculators anyway Especially since (at least in my experience) basically none of the math courses at University level involve a calculator.
      - oses 5y ago
        this greatly depends on the university. The first university I went to allowed calculators and required TI nspire for calc 2. When I transferred the second university did not allow graphing calculators and covered half the content in the same period of time. (calc 2 content was covered in calc 1 at first university)

crmrc114 5y ago

Why don't they offer a paid app with their calculator emulated? I keep my various calculator emulators on Android because I love the ease of all my custom TI apps. Would be really nice if they just made a decent Android application for all the engineers out there like me.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ceejayoz 5y ago
> Why don't they offer a paid app with their calculator emulated? Because their main market isn't permitted to have phones on their desks during tests.
- luke2m 5y ago
  Exactly. If I was not required to, I would never have bought a TI. Gnome Plots or desmos are just so much more convenient.
baumandm 5y ago
I'm guessing they view releasing an official calculator app as a move towards eventually replacing the hardware calculator. It could help legitimize a cell phone calculator to schools and exam boards. I'm also guessing their product margins are better on hardware than they would be on software, since there are so many other calculator apps available. The market of people who want a TI-branded calculator app on Android or iOS is a lot smaller than the captive student market. IMHO eventually the tides will shift and school districts and exams will start allowing cell phones, and I imagine just before that happens they will suddenly discover they have a nice Android/iOS app ready to launch.
- JohnBooty 5y ago
  IMHO eventually the tides will shift and school districts and exams will start allowing cell phones, Why would this happen, and why would it be a good thing?

the_only_law 5y ago

Didn’t they recently remove the ability to run native Z80 binaries in some of their calculators because of concerns of cheating software being distributed? I imagine this will be a pretty locked down Python environment.

jbluepolarbear 5y ago
My brother used to make C programs and trade them to other kids for $5. He had one for Algebra 2, Physics, and Pre-Calc. Teachers started wiping calculators before tests, but didn’t remove the binary programs he made. Became a big deal.
- mattwad 5y ago
  I made an app that showed a fake 'wiped data' screen. Teachers wouldn't think to actually watch me delete the apps lol
  - BitwiseFool 5y ago
    Hah! You did that too?

bernardv 5y ago

It’s been available in Europe for many years.

adenner 5y ago

What version of python will it be? How complete will it be? Also, will you be able to add packages from pip via USB cable?

rtkwe 5y ago
A version of Python 3 based off of CircuitPython that they've tweaked. https://blog.adafruit.com/2021/05/20/python-snakes-its-way-to-the-ti-84-plus-ce-python-graphing-calculator-by-texas-instruments-runs-circuitpython-ticalculators/ https://blog.adafruit.com/2021/05/20/python-snakes-its-way-t...
MPSimmons 5y ago
Mine is 3.4

Tempest1981 5y ago

More comments here (3 months ago): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27084879 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27084879 (158 comments)

MPSimmons 5y ago

I have one of these. It's essentially Circuit Python (3.4). It has a limited number of libraries, but overall, it's pretty cool. You can include other python files on the calculator, so you can bring your own libraries if you need to.

sparkling 5y ago

Input via the keyboard? Sounds like a rather painful experience.

rel2thr 5y ago

A language with significant white space seems suboptimal for a device with a small screen . I remember fondly my wall of text no indentation TI basic programs

linux2647 5y ago
Good use case for using tabs and setting a low tab size. But still

reasonabl_human 5y ago

It blows my mind that TI has such a stranglehold on the educational calculator market. Producing a TI-84 must be a few bucks vs. the >$100 they sold them for when I was in school. Does anybody know of open source alternatives that could be pushed in the classroom? There’s no way they can patent math..

dharmab 5y ago
They didn't patent math. They survive for a few reasons: - Standardized testing calculator requirements are crafted in such a way that graphing calculators are allowed by specific model: https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/exam-policies-guidelines/calculator-policies https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/exam-policies-guidelines... - Textbooks contain instructions on using TI calculators (and sometimes, if you're very lucky, Casio). Teachers can only provide personal instruction with TI because that's what the schools buy (presumably thanks to marketing and dealmaking). Math classes are already hard for high schoolers. Having to deal with the disadvantage of being on a different platform from your peers is hard.
- rdtwo 5y ago
  The problem is that once you hit college you have to give the calculator up and use the scientific calculator for 2 years in the weedout classes
  - isk517 5y ago
    The TI-84 was worth it for how much easier it made doing assignments. The extra screen space and the ability to easily edit the equations you entered and recall past entry probably saved me hundreds of hours. Just need to make sure I was proficient enough with my Casio scientific calculator for tests and exams.
axegon_ 5y ago
> Does anybody know of open source alternatives that could be pushed in the classroom? I have no idea to be honest but they wouldn't be that hard to make given the wide choice of portable computational power. Surely wouldn't be all that complicated to 3d print a housing and shove a rpi zero in there or some of it's most powerful cousins. That said, with all the parts and effort I doubt it would come a whole lot cheaper.

pdpi 5y ago

Graphing calculators for school use infuriate me. For the price of a calculator[0] you can instead buy an entry-level Chromebook[1]. You would get a general purpose-ish computer instead of a highly specialised, highly limited, woefully underpowered device. It feels like a weird case of regulatory capture. 0. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Texas-Instruments-84PLCE-TBL-2E5/dp/B01086MEM2/ 1. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dell-Chromebook-3120-3120-7898-Resolution/dp/B016DP0XUW/

markus_zhang 5y ago
But maybe someone has a contract with some schools so it's good money.
dotcommand 5y ago
People in the UK are forced to buy these calculators also? Thought it was an exclusively US racket. Another hit to american exceptionalism. With the rise of smartphones, I figured I was part of the last generation forced to buy these overpriced TI calculators. It's so sad to see this racket going strong today. You spend $100 ( a lot of money to most people ) on a useless device that you don't ever use again. Never once in college or thereafter have I used my TI calculator.
seidoger 5y ago
Calculators are still distraction-free. They're a purpose-build device. Our exams in engineering school took into account we could solve 5 equations/unknowns problems with our TI-92 Plus (at the time). Can't imagine students with Chromebooks during exams (edit: or maybe I'm just from a different time)
- pdpi 5y ago
  There's good reasons to having a dedicated, more limited device. What bothers me is that the device is a hard requirement for students, which means TI and Casio get to charge unreasonable amounts of money for these calculators that are not reflective of what they'd otherwise be worth. I brought up the Chromebook not so much as a suggested alternative, but as a benchmark for what sort of hardware you can get for the same money when your market isn't completely tied to your product.

CivBase 5y ago

> "Python is a programming language that is easy to get started with, good for beginners" I couldn't disagree more. In my experience, Python is a terribly difficult language for anyone who doesn't already have a solid grasp on common programming concepts. Its syntax is easy to read, but it's chuck-full of features and optimized for experienced developers, not beginners. For example, consider a simple counting loop in C... for(int i = 0; i < 5; i++) { printf("%d\n", i); } That code is a little obtuse, but what it does is very simple. The `for` loop requires three statements - initialization, condition, and iterator. The initialization statement (int i = 0) is only called at the beginning of the loop and is used to define our variable (in this case, i). Next the `for` loop executes the condition statement. If the condition evaluates to true, it executes the body of the loop, then the iterator statement, then jumps back to the condition and tries again. If the condition evaluates to false, it moves on to the next line of code after the `for` loop. In this case, our loop initializes i as 0. The condition `i < 5` means the loop will execute the body until i >= 5. The body simply prints the value of i and, after the body is executed each time, the loop executes our iterator statement which increments i by 1. So long as you understand variables, conditions, arithmetic operators, and the `printf()` function you can figure out a `for` loop in C. Now consider the same thing in Python... for i in range(5): print(i) That code is pretty easy to read, but what does it do? The `for` loop is used to iterate over an "iterable" object, which is a collection of multiple values. The body of the loop is executed for each value in the collection and assigns i a value from the collection for each iteration. In this case, our collection is output by the call to `range(5)`. The body of our loop simply prints the value of i. What's an object? An object is a thing with attributes (variable within the object) and methods (functions within the object). Objects can be values of variables just like any primitive value. What does range do? The builtin function `range` outputs a generator which yields values from the minimum (default 0) to the maximum (in this case 5) at a given step (default 1). The minimum is inclusive but the maximum is not so in this case it will yield 0, 1, 2, 3, and 4. What's a generator? First we need to define "iterator". An iterator is an object which helps to iterate over a collection of values. All iterators have a special `__next__()` method which returns the next value in the collection. When there are no more values left to iterate over in the collection, the `__next__()` method raises a `StopIteration` exception. A generator is a type of iterator which mimics having a collection but instead of holding a collection of values in memory and iterating over them, it generates each value one-at-a-time only when the `__next__()` method is called. In our case, the generator starts at 0 for the first value and adds 1 to the output each time `__next__()` is called. When it reaches 5, instead of returning it raises the `StopIteration` exception. What's an exception? An exception is a mechanism for interrupting execution of code. Instead of continuing to the next line of code, an exception causes the program to exit the call stack one level at a time until it either reaches the top or is caught by something. In our case, the `for` loop catches that `StopIteration` exception for us and uses that to know when to stop. Hopefully you know what the call stack is by now. Yeah, a novice could probably ignore most of this stuff and just take for granted that the body of the loop will get executed for each value in the range 0..n (where n is the value given to `range()`). But this is just one example. Python requires novices to take a lot of things for granted from the start. Its syntax is mostly simple and elegant, but in terms of functionality it hurls developers into the deep end and they often have a hard time staying afloat if they haven't already learned the basics with other languages. ...that said, I'm rather fond of Python and think it's a great fit for programmable calculators for a variety of other reasons. "Good for beginners" just isn't one of them.