4 ms·

The part that really gets me is that the warrant for bade them from seizing the boxes, and the FBI did it anyways. It might be a technicality to some, but we mu

The part that really gets me is that the warrant for bade them from seizing the boxes, and the FBI did it anyways. It might be a technicality to some, but we must hold the government accountable in all of its misdeeds. I am not a lawyer, but from what is written in this article, it seems the government has grossly overstepped when it could have achieved its goals legally. However that would require them to show cause, which avoidance of this basic and fundamental tenant, is very suspect.

xscott 5y ago
> However that would require them to show cause They can always fabricate cause. I got pulled over last week (I wasn't speeding or anything, I just had out of state plates visiting a friend). When I didn't consent to have him search my vehicle, he walked a dog around my car and fabricated probable cause. I don't do drugs and there have never been drugs in my car, and yet he said the dog "reacted"... Of course he didn't find anything - there was nothing to find. No ticket, just 30-40 minutes of him going through all my possessions. I guess I should be grateful he didn't "seize" something or shoot me.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  Funny because a friend of mine had his kid pulled over for rolling through a stop sign, the cop saw smoking paraphernalia in the center console (weed is not legal here), just told them "keep that stuff out of sight, boys" and gave them a warning for the stop sign.
  - xscott 5y ago
    Not sure what's funny about it... The cop told me two or three times that he wasn't interested in "small amounts". (Although they're allowed to lie to you.) I told him I didn't have any amount. I guess middle-age guys (like me) driving minivans with out of state plates through a flyover state is suspicious?!?
- rasz 5y ago
  30-40 min is illegal https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-police-use-dogs-sniff-drugs-no-warrant.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-police-use-dogs-... >an officer who doesn't have reasonable suspicion may not extend a traffic stop in order to conduct a dog sniff. The officer who pulls a driver over may not prolong the detention "beyond the time reasonably required to complete" the stop's "mission." you could sue
- chrismcb 5y ago
  How do you get pulled over for out of state plates? That doesn't seem like something you should have a traffic stop for.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
I think one of the big flaws with our legal system is a paradigm of “this is that” kind of thinking. How do you get around the spirit of a law? Well you claim what you did was something else because the law doesn’t mention that other thing. It wasn’t a search, it was just conjecture. Sure the end effect was the same but this is a totally different thing.
tootie 5y ago
They were actually allowed to seize the boxes just not to search the contents. They had an indictment against the business itself but not against the actual customers. The entire business is setup to hide assets so they probably figured they could bootstrap cases against the customers who were probably up to something. In reality they probably just collected a ton of incriminating evidence that's going to be inadmissible.
tomc1985 5y ago
Yeah, how do they expect that to hold up in court? Isn't that the sort of misconduct that gets evidence suppressed or cases thrown out?
- SOMA_BOFH 5y ago
  yes, until you run into a judge & prosecutor who are golf buddies.

xscott 5y ago

> However that would require them to show cause They can always fabricate cause. I got pulled over last week (I wasn't speeding or anything, I just had out of state plates visiting a friend). When I didn't consent to have him search my vehicle, he walked a dog around my car and fabricated probable cause. I don't do drugs and there have never been drugs in my car, and yet he said the dog "reacted"... Of course he didn't find anything - there was nothing to find. No ticket, just 30-40 minutes of him going through all my possessions. I guess I should be grateful he didn't "seize" something or shoot me.

throwawayboise 5y ago
Funny because a friend of mine had his kid pulled over for rolling through a stop sign, the cop saw smoking paraphernalia in the center console (weed is not legal here), just told them "keep that stuff out of sight, boys" and gave them a warning for the stop sign.
- xscott 5y ago
  Not sure what's funny about it... The cop told me two or three times that he wasn't interested in "small amounts". (Although they're allowed to lie to you.) I told him I didn't have any amount. I guess middle-age guys (like me) driving minivans with out of state plates through a flyover state is suspicious?!?
rasz 5y ago
30-40 min is illegal https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-police-use-dogs-sniff-drugs-no-warrant.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-police-use-dogs-... >an officer who doesn't have reasonable suspicion may not extend a traffic stop in order to conduct a dog sniff. The officer who pulls a driver over may not prolong the detention "beyond the time reasonably required to complete" the stop's "mission." you could sue
chrismcb 5y ago
How do you get pulled over for out of state plates? That doesn't seem like something you should have a traffic stop for.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago

I think one of the big flaws with our legal system is a paradigm of “this is that” kind of thinking. How do you get around the spirit of a law? Well you claim what you did was something else because the law doesn’t mention that other thing. It wasn’t a search, it was just conjecture. Sure the end effect was the same but this is a totally different thing.

tootie 5y ago

They were actually allowed to seize the boxes just not to search the contents. They had an indictment against the business itself but not against the actual customers. The entire business is setup to hide assets so they probably figured they could bootstrap cases against the customers who were probably up to something. In reality they probably just collected a ton of incriminating evidence that's going to be inadmissible.

tomc1985 5y ago

Yeah, how do they expect that to hold up in court? Isn't that the sort of misconduct that gets evidence suppressed or cases thrown out?

SOMA_BOFH 5y ago
yes, until you run into a judge & prosecutor who are golf buddies.