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You couldn’t be more wrong, or more dismissive. Ask a working single mother whether inexpensive, effective appliances are a significant productivity and quality

by op00to 5y ago

You couldn’t be more wrong, or more dismissive. Ask a working single mother whether inexpensive, effective appliances are a significant productivity and quality of life enhancer.

ALittleLight 5y ago
This reminds me of Simpson's Paradox in the sense that it may be true that life is better for a single mother because modern appliances make life easier but it is also true that society has greatly increased the number of single mothers. In 1980 18% of births were to single mothers compared to 40% in 2020[1]. It's possible that the amount of single mother suffering has increased even though the suffering per single mother may have decreased. (No change, I expect, in the children's suffering) 1 - https://www.statista.com/statistics/276025/us-percentage-of-births-to-unmarried-women/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/276025/us-percentage-of-...
- op00to 5y ago
  Again, we can go deeper. How many single mothers would be forced to remain in otherwise abusive situations but for the fact that she is able to both work and care for her family due to “progress”?
  - ALittleLight 5y ago
    My cursory look for some evidence suggests single mothers see dramatically elevated rates of violence and abuse. This source surveys children who live with both parents and just one. Children living with just one are seven times as likely to have witnessed someone hitting their mother in the past year than children living with both parents. I take that to mean that the increase in single motherhood means there is more domestic abuse happening than if no such increase had taken place. https://ifstudies.org/blog/children-in-single-parent-families-are-more-likely-to-witness-domestic-violence/ https://ifstudies.org/blog/children-in-single-parent-familie...
    - bonzini 5y ago
      Or maybe those women are now single mothers because they were able to escape their abusers. You would have to compare data across decades, and adjust for people being more/less willing to disclose abuse.
- CapricornNoble 5y ago
  >>>No change, I expect, in the children's suffering Drug use, gang activity, and other criminality are all positively correlated with single-parent households, and some data shows even MORE positively correlated with single-mother, as opposed to single-father, households. https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/single-parent-families-cause-juvenile-crime-juvenile-crime-opposing https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/single-p... https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316649639_The_effects_of_single-mother_and_single-father_families_on_youth_crime_Examining_five_gender-related_hypotheses https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316649639_The_effec... https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/report/the-real-root-causes-violent-crime-the-breakdown-marriage-family-and/#:~:text=State%2Dby%2Dstate%20analysis%20by,of%20families%20abandoned%20by%20fathers https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/report/the-real-r....
- Negitivefrags 5y ago
  That statistic sounds totally wrong and after looking at your source it is highly misleading. It’s just if the parents were married at birth. Of the people I know with kids like 50% of them were not married when they started having kids. They either got married latter or never married because there was no advantage to do so and they didn’t care. Yet none of them are what you would call “single mothers”. They are all still together with the fathers of their children. So basically it says more about marriage than it does about parenting.
  - ALittleLight 5y ago
    If you have better data I'm happy to look at that. I agree that cohabiting are likely more common now and it is possibly more common to get married just after birth than it used to be. Table CH-1 from this census website shows that children living with a single parent goes from 10% in 1960 to 36% in 2020. (=E13/C13) I'm not certain but I think they are accounting for cohabiting parents here because they don't use any language related to marriage and the census could tell if the parents were cohabiting or not. https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/families/children.html https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/families...
hellbannedguy 5y ago
Wow-- I have never heard anyone say, "Bosh made my life easier" And it reminds me I'm on my second pump for a E12 error. (After tossing too many Bosh appliances, I finally got lucky repairing one. The guys on the internet helped.)
- bonzini 5y ago
  You probably should ask someone who was born in the 1920s. If you asked a middle class woman in the 50s to choose between a car and a washing machine, I would bet she would pick the washing machine.
- Ma8ee 5y ago
  There’s nothing forcing you to use any electric appliances, with the possible exception the stove if you to make warm food and don’t have access to a wood stove. Try a week washing the dishes by hand, doing your laundry in the sink or in the bathtub. I’m sure you’ll be a bit embarrassed about your above comment after that.
coldtea 5y ago
Ask a working single mother is she would trade "inexpensive, effective appliances" to 1960s era healthcare, housing/rent, and education costs, and working/middle class job availability. The answer might suprise you...
- actually_a_dog 5y ago
  I don’t think quite as many “working/middle class job(s)” were available to single mothers in the 1960s as you seem to be claiming.
Ma8ee 5y ago
I very much agree with you. I grew up without microwave oven or dishwasher. Neither of those are essential in any way, but claiming that those don’t provide great time savers for parents (single or not) with small children would be ridiculous. I don’t remember where I saw the numbers, but in 1980 a microwave cost more than a months (average) salary. Today I can buy a good one for less than half a day’s earnings.

by op00to 5y ago

You couldn’t be more wrong, or more dismissive. Ask a working single mother whether inexpensive, effective appliances are a significant productivity and quality of life enhancer.

ALittleLight 5y ago

This reminds me of Simpson's Paradox in the sense that it may be true that life is better for a single mother because modern appliances make life easier but it is also true that society has greatly increased the number of single mothers. In 1980 18% of births were to single mothers compared to 40% in 2020[1]. It's possible that the amount of single mother suffering has increased even though the suffering per single mother may have decreased. (No change, I expect, in the children's suffering) 1 - https://www.statista.com/statistics/276025/us-percentage-of-births-to-unmarried-women/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/276025/us-percentage-of-...

op00to 5y ago
Again, we can go deeper. How many single mothers would be forced to remain in otherwise abusive situations but for the fact that she is able to both work and care for her family due to “progress”?
- ALittleLight 5y ago
  My cursory look for some evidence suggests single mothers see dramatically elevated rates of violence and abuse. This source surveys children who live with both parents and just one. Children living with just one are seven times as likely to have witnessed someone hitting their mother in the past year than children living with both parents. I take that to mean that the increase in single motherhood means there is more domestic abuse happening than if no such increase had taken place. https://ifstudies.org/blog/children-in-single-parent-families-are-more-likely-to-witness-domestic-violence/ https://ifstudies.org/blog/children-in-single-parent-familie...
  - bonzini 5y ago
    Or maybe those women are now single mothers because they were able to escape their abusers. You would have to compare data across decades, and adjust for people being more/less willing to disclose abuse.
CapricornNoble 5y ago
>>>No change, I expect, in the children's suffering Drug use, gang activity, and other criminality are all positively correlated with single-parent households, and some data shows even MORE positively correlated with single-mother, as opposed to single-father, households. https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/single-parent-families-cause-juvenile-crime-juvenile-crime-opposing https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/single-p... https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316649639_The_effects_of_single-mother_and_single-father_families_on_youth_crime_Examining_five_gender-related_hypotheses https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316649639_The_effec... https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/report/the-real-root-causes-violent-crime-the-breakdown-marriage-family-and/#:~:text=State%2Dby%2Dstate%20analysis%20by,of%20families%20abandoned%20by%20fathers https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/report/the-real-r....
Negitivefrags 5y ago
That statistic sounds totally wrong and after looking at your source it is highly misleading. It’s just if the parents were married at birth. Of the people I know with kids like 50% of them were not married when they started having kids. They either got married latter or never married because there was no advantage to do so and they didn’t care. Yet none of them are what you would call “single mothers”. They are all still together with the fathers of their children. So basically it says more about marriage than it does about parenting.
- ALittleLight 5y ago
  If you have better data I'm happy to look at that. I agree that cohabiting are likely more common now and it is possibly more common to get married just after birth than it used to be. Table CH-1 from this census website shows that children living with a single parent goes from 10% in 1960 to 36% in 2020. (=E13/C13) I'm not certain but I think they are accounting for cohabiting parents here because they don't use any language related to marriage and the census could tell if the parents were cohabiting or not. https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/families/children.html https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/families...

hellbannedguy 5y ago

Wow-- I have never heard anyone say, "Bosh made my life easier" And it reminds me I'm on my second pump for a E12 error. (After tossing too many Bosh appliances, I finally got lucky repairing one. The guys on the internet helped.)

bonzini 5y ago
You probably should ask someone who was born in the 1920s. If you asked a middle class woman in the 50s to choose between a car and a washing machine, I would bet she would pick the washing machine.
Ma8ee 5y ago
There’s nothing forcing you to use any electric appliances, with the possible exception the stove if you to make warm food and don’t have access to a wood stove. Try a week washing the dishes by hand, doing your laundry in the sink or in the bathtub. I’m sure you’ll be a bit embarrassed about your above comment after that.

coldtea 5y ago

Ask a working single mother is she would trade "inexpensive, effective appliances" to 1960s era healthcare, housing/rent, and education costs, and working/middle class job availability. The answer might suprise you...

actually_a_dog 5y ago
I don’t think quite as many “working/middle class job(s)” were available to single mothers in the 1960s as you seem to be claiming.

Ma8ee 5y ago

I very much agree with you. I grew up without microwave oven or dishwasher. Neither of those are essential in any way, but claiming that those don’t provide great time savers for parents (single or not) with small children would be ridiculous. I don’t remember where I saw the numbers, but in 1980 a microwave cost more than a months (average) salary. Today I can buy a good one for less than half a day’s earnings.