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> what ML has brought to the forefront -- from self-landing airplanes to self-landing cars I am not aware of any ML in flight controls. Being black box and pro

> what ML has brought to the forefront -- from self-landing airplanes to self-landing cars I am not aware of any ML in flight controls. Being black box and probabilistic by nature, these things won’t get past industry standards and regulations (at least for a while).

dvt 5y ago
> I am not aware of any ML in flight controls. Being black box and probabilistic by nature, these things won’t get past industry standards and regulations (at least for a while). (Hah, I accidentally wrote "self-landing cars," fixed). But yeah, I guess I was thinking more of drones, I'm not exactly sure what ML (if any) is in the guts of a commercial or military airplane.
- meheleventyone 5y ago
  Drones don’t need ML to self-land AFAIK?
- moyix 5y ago
  I don't know if they have made it into production yet (probably not?) but Lindsey Kuper wrote a nice pair of posts on how DNNs can replace an existing collision avoidance system (ACAS), and how to verify whether it's still safe after doing so: http://composition.al/blog/2017/05/30/proving-that-safety-critical-neural-networks-do-what-theyre-supposed-to-where-we-are-where-were-going-part-1-of-2/ http://composition.al/blog/2017/05/30/proving-that-safety-cr... http://composition.al/blog/2017/05/31/proving-that-safety-critical-neural-networks-do-what-theyre-supposed-to-where-we-are-where-were-going-part-2-of-2/ http://composition.al/blog/2017/05/31/proving-that-safety-cr...
  - light_hue_1 5y ago
    ACAS X is like the sweet spot for AI. We have a system now, TCAS II which is reliable but has a lot of false positives and has a big limitation: both aircraft need to have TCAS in order to detect and resolve a conflict. It's also an environment that is very simple to simulate and model mathematically compared to virtually anything else AI will ever be applied to. TCAS II will be around for a very long time, like two decades, while ACAS X is deployed. So the AI system will also have a backup that already works. This is really the perfect target for AI: clear backups, we just need some extra capabilities and warnings, easy to simulate, false positives are acceptable. That's basically unique. Even then nothing has been deployed yet. We're half a decade away or so at best.
- mopsi 5y ago
  > I'm not exactly sure what ML (if any) is in the guts of a commercial or military airplane. I never get tired of the fact that first jet airliners with fully automated landing systems had been developed and were going through certification for regular use by the time first microcontrollers popped up. Intel 4004 came in 1971, here's Hawker Siddeley Trident landing in a 1968 promo movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flVcxfOnWi0&t=9s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flVcxfOnWi0&t=9s

dvt 5y ago

> I am not aware of any ML in flight controls. Being black box and probabilistic by nature, these things won’t get past industry standards and regulations (at least for a while). (Hah, I accidentally wrote "self-landing cars," fixed). But yeah, I guess I was thinking more of drones, I'm not exactly sure what ML (if any) is in the guts of a commercial or military airplane.

meheleventyone 5y ago
Drones don’t need ML to self-land AFAIK?
moyix 5y ago
I don't know if they have made it into production yet (probably not?) but Lindsey Kuper wrote a nice pair of posts on how DNNs can replace an existing collision avoidance system (ACAS), and how to verify whether it's still safe after doing so: http://composition.al/blog/2017/05/30/proving-that-safety-critical-neural-networks-do-what-theyre-supposed-to-where-we-are-where-were-going-part-1-of-2/ http://composition.al/blog/2017/05/30/proving-that-safety-cr... http://composition.al/blog/2017/05/31/proving-that-safety-critical-neural-networks-do-what-theyre-supposed-to-where-we-are-where-were-going-part-2-of-2/ http://composition.al/blog/2017/05/31/proving-that-safety-cr...
- light_hue_1 5y ago
  ACAS X is like the sweet spot for AI. We have a system now, TCAS II which is reliable but has a lot of false positives and has a big limitation: both aircraft need to have TCAS in order to detect and resolve a conflict. It's also an environment that is very simple to simulate and model mathematically compared to virtually anything else AI will ever be applied to. TCAS II will be around for a very long time, like two decades, while ACAS X is deployed. So the AI system will also have a backup that already works. This is really the perfect target for AI: clear backups, we just need some extra capabilities and warnings, easy to simulate, false positives are acceptable. That's basically unique. Even then nothing has been deployed yet. We're half a decade away or so at best.
mopsi 5y ago
> I'm not exactly sure what ML (if any) is in the guts of a commercial or military airplane. I never get tired of the fact that first jet airliners with fully automated landing systems had been developed and were going through certification for regular use by the time first microcontrollers popped up. Intel 4004 came in 1971, here's Hawker Siddeley Trident landing in a 1968 promo movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flVcxfOnWi0&t=9s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flVcxfOnWi0&t=9s