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AFAIK Comma.ai is the only open-source company in the self-driving cars space. It is very interesting that they are continuously launching consumer-products wit

AFAIK Comma.ai is the only open-source company in the self-driving cars space. It is very interesting that they are continuously launching consumer-products with a small team and in a highly competitive space where the other players are quite big.

alpaca128 5y ago
They have a more focused approach that simplifies it a lot. Where others build whole self-driving cars Comma uses existing interfaces and sensors in the vehicle. That's far less complexity to worry about.
stefan_ 5y ago
This does not in any shape or form compete in the self-driving cars space; the thing doesn't have a rear camera! This is basically the "rsync as Dropbox" approach to augmenting your car with a hacky version of automatic cruise control, with a bonus lawsuit should you ever be in a crash significant enough to warrant the attention (think paralysis).
- mgraczyk 5y ago
  If you haven't tried it, I would refrain from making that claim. I used the v1 of this device for ~1 year, and since then driving has never felt the same. It was sooo much less annoying to do regular commutes when the device took control for even 90% of the trip. This was true even though I still paid attention to the road and had hands ready to take the wheel.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    Sure, but your experience doesn't really tell us about the overall safety of the system. How many total miles have been driven by people using a Comma system? The front page of their website says "millions", which is several orders of magnitude less than Tesla Autopilot (several billion miles at this point). Given that in the US there is around 1 fatality per 100 million miles driven, I don't think "millions" of miles driven with Comma is anywhere near enough to say anything about its safety record.
- birken 5y ago
  Comma is far and away the best version of "automatic cruise control" that exists in any consumer car. If you think Comma is hacky then wait until you see Tesla's version, which costs $10k and only works on one brand of car! The stock "automatic cruise control" is most cars is far worse and far more dangerous than Comma, and those companies aren't getting taken down by lawsuits. At the end of the day, the driver is responsible for the operation of the vehicle. Comma is a tool the driver can use, and one that undoubtedly makes driving safer for themselves and other vehicles on the road.
  - varelse 5y ago
    Um... Have you driven a Mach E yet? No interest in its upcoming FSD, but the adaptive cruise control and lane assistance is wonderfully conservative and useful.
    - birken 5y ago
      I've only driven my car, but Consumer Reports tested a bunch of cars and rated Comma the best [1]. Maybe another car since then is better, but of course Comma is always getting updated and you just download the new version to your device when it comes out. 1: https://data.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/consumer-reports-active-driving-assistance-systems-november-16-2020.pdf https://data.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/...
      - varelse 5y ago
        After reading a description of the comma device and how it's being used it seems uncannily like how my Mach E drives. But also as both my first EV and my first semi self-driving car, perhaps I have a different set of standards. My TLDR was that the adaptive cruise control and automatic lane keeping extended my daily driving range by several hundred miles by reducing cognitive load significantly. It was the best 900 miles I've ever driven. But watching people nitpick various variants of electric crossover SUVs, I realize I would probably like just about all of them because none of my cars have been anything like that up to now. So I keyed in my other two cars to see if I could put the comma into it and alas I cannot. They are 2013 and 2016 models respectively. And yes the system in the Mach E is brand new: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32896537/fords-driver-assist-system-drivers-hands-free/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32896537/fords-driver-ass...
- bobsomers 5y ago
  I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. This is an accurate, if colorful, assessment. It has all the same safety problems as a Tesla with even worse sensors, less compute, and practically zero real safety V&V work. They cutely dodged NHTSA's regulatory ire by shipping a "dash cam" that happens to run software you can install which makes it semi-autonomous... even though said software is made by the same company that ships the "dash cam". NHTSA isn't stupid, so I'm curious what it will take for this loophole to eventually be properly closed. Sadly, safety is a lot like security. When it's done well, it's invisible, but when it's done poorly...
kyle_martin1 5y ago
Not actually open source. The source code that’s available is a thin wrapper around a closed-source ML model. If George really cared about Open Source he would release the training architecture and training data.
- mgraczyk 5y ago
  As somebody who works with video and photo user data for machine learning, I'd say they are much better off not releasing the majority of their data. Unfortunately there are fairly severe legal consequences for commercial use of certain kinds of unconsented user data in various US states (consent of the people filmed, not the people collecting the data), and even companies in complete compliance have to deal with a huge potential legal headache to prove that their datasets follow every local regulation.
  - kyle_martin1 5y ago
    I agree with you but...you're also not claiming you're project/product is open source.

alpaca128 5y ago

They have a more focused approach that simplifies it a lot. Where others build whole self-driving cars Comma uses existing interfaces and sensors in the vehicle. That's far less complexity to worry about.

stefan_ 5y ago

This does not in any shape or form compete in the self-driving cars space; the thing doesn't have a rear camera! This is basically the "rsync as Dropbox" approach to augmenting your car with a hacky version of automatic cruise control, with a bonus lawsuit should you ever be in a crash significant enough to warrant the attention (think paralysis).

mgraczyk 5y ago
If you haven't tried it, I would refrain from making that claim. I used the v1 of this device for ~1 year, and since then driving has never felt the same. It was sooo much less annoying to do regular commutes when the device took control for even 90% of the trip. This was true even though I still paid attention to the road and had hands ready to take the wheel.
- kelnos 5y ago
  Sure, but your experience doesn't really tell us about the overall safety of the system. How many total miles have been driven by people using a Comma system? The front page of their website says "millions", which is several orders of magnitude less than Tesla Autopilot (several billion miles at this point). Given that in the US there is around 1 fatality per 100 million miles driven, I don't think "millions" of miles driven with Comma is anywhere near enough to say anything about its safety record.
birken 5y ago
Comma is far and away the best version of "automatic cruise control" that exists in any consumer car. If you think Comma is hacky then wait until you see Tesla's version, which costs $10k and only works on one brand of car! The stock "automatic cruise control" is most cars is far worse and far more dangerous than Comma, and those companies aren't getting taken down by lawsuits. At the end of the day, the driver is responsible for the operation of the vehicle. Comma is a tool the driver can use, and one that undoubtedly makes driving safer for themselves and other vehicles on the road.
- varelse 5y ago
  Um... Have you driven a Mach E yet? No interest in its upcoming FSD, but the adaptive cruise control and lane assistance is wonderfully conservative and useful.
  - birken 5y ago
    I've only driven my car, but Consumer Reports tested a bunch of cars and rated Comma the best [1]. Maybe another car since then is better, but of course Comma is always getting updated and you just download the new version to your device when it comes out. 1: https://data.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/consumer-reports-active-driving-assistance-systems-november-16-2020.pdf https://data.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/...
    - varelse 5y ago
      After reading a description of the comma device and how it's being used it seems uncannily like how my Mach E drives. But also as both my first EV and my first semi self-driving car, perhaps I have a different set of standards. My TLDR was that the adaptive cruise control and automatic lane keeping extended my daily driving range by several hundred miles by reducing cognitive load significantly. It was the best 900 miles I've ever driven. But watching people nitpick various variants of electric crossover SUVs, I realize I would probably like just about all of them because none of my cars have been anything like that up to now. So I keyed in my other two cars to see if I could put the comma into it and alas I cannot. They are 2013 and 2016 models respectively. And yes the system in the Mach E is brand new: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32896537/fords-driver-assist-system-drivers-hands-free/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32896537/fords-driver-ass...
bobsomers 5y ago
I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. This is an accurate, if colorful, assessment. It has all the same safety problems as a Tesla with even worse sensors, less compute, and practically zero real safety V&V work. They cutely dodged NHTSA's regulatory ire by shipping a "dash cam" that happens to run software you can install which makes it semi-autonomous... even though said software is made by the same company that ships the "dash cam". NHTSA isn't stupid, so I'm curious what it will take for this loophole to eventually be properly closed. Sadly, safety is a lot like security. When it's done well, it's invisible, but when it's done poorly...

kyle_martin1 5y ago

Not actually open source. The source code that’s available is a thin wrapper around a closed-source ML model. If George really cared about Open Source he would release the training architecture and training data.

mgraczyk 5y ago
As somebody who works with video and photo user data for machine learning, I'd say they are much better off not releasing the majority of their data. Unfortunately there are fairly severe legal consequences for commercial use of certain kinds of unconsented user data in various US states (consent of the people filmed, not the people collecting the data), and even companies in complete compliance have to deal with a huge potential legal headache to prove that their datasets follow every local regulation.
- kyle_martin1 5y ago
  I agree with you but...you're also not claiming you're project/product is open source.