4 ms·

Osama bin Laden was found because his family hung their clothes out to dry

43 points by WheelsAtLarge 5y ago

peakaboo 5y ago
Propaganda much?
- johng 5y ago
  In what way?
  - coldtea 5y ago
    Not sure about propaganda, but sounds like a lame-ass piece, taking for granted what BS official sources said. As if they'd reveal an informant or other (more plausible) means of getting that information. They had arrived at a suspect house, identified the driver, but had to rely on the clothesline for such information? I call BS. But it makes for a good story.
    - lostlogin 5y ago
      It’s hard to disagree with this, it was bs all the way down. There was also the way a vaccination programme was used as a cover for helping find him, causing problems down the line. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2277145-cias-hunt-for-osama-bin-laden-fuelled-vaccine-hesitancy-in-pakistan/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/2277145-cias-hunt-for-o...
      - GekkePrutser 5y ago
        I'm not a fan of the CIA's methods in general but I don't think blaming them for this lapse in vaccinations is fair. The real cause is the people spreading all these lies about vaccines. In fact I like that they went out of their way to validate their target instead of just going in all cowboy and shooting the place up on limited intel.
        salawat 5y ago
        Yes. Nevermind that you actually had conspiracy theory level skulduggery going on under the guise of a public health measure further undermining the already tenuous trust that exists under for the neutrality of the public health edifice. Amazing the level of mental gymnastics that people are prone to when the objectives of national security come into relief.
        GekkePrutser 5y ago
        I'm not even American :) Their national security isn't something that would worry me. And I know they often do things in the name of national security that are more about commercial interests. However we are talking about a man who murdered thousands of innocents in cold blood. And shocked the whole world. If people already have distrust for the local medical service, that's a local problem they should address. If they feel like helping to track down a mass murderer makes that health service even less trustworthy, they really are supporting the wrong side. I think the only thing they did wrong was killing Bin Laden. I feel he should have stood trial for that. They shouldn't have killed him no matter how much he deserved it. Even the worst Nazis stood trial. I know it would have given him a stage but it was still wrong. But I think sending a fake medical team in to confirm was a small measure considering what he had done. I'm sure even the police would do things like that in much less important cases.
        dTal 5y ago
        >In fact I like that they went out of their way to validate their target instead of just going in all cowboy and shooting the place up on limited intel. That's your bar?
    - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
      Well they had to be certain, right? What if the driver was working for someone else, and Bin Laden was nearby but didn't live there? You send in the marines, you don't get Osama, and instead you've basically let him know that he needs to GTFO that city...
    - relativ575 5y ago
      The clothesline was only a clue, they didn't rely on it: "But the final clue was the clotheslines on the compound, which flapped each day with women’s garments, shalwar kameez worn by Pakistani men, children’s outfits and diapers — far more than the 11 members of the bodyguards’ families could ever wear." Perhaps you only read the title? because I agree it's a clickbait.
      - coldtea 5y ago
        >Perhaps you only read the title? Besides the clothelines, I mention two other things that are in the article only. Perhaps you've only skimmed my comment? :-)
- cdstyh 5y ago
  Much of what the media puts out is propaganda. I'd say a majority of what they release is propaganda.
- zrth 5y ago
  Tbh, i think it's just advertising for a book disguised as news.
  - verdverm 5y ago
    No mention of laundry here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhunt_for_Osama_bin_Laden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhunt_for_Osama_bin_Laden
bellyfullofbac 5y ago
Interesting insight into op-sec failures when trying to hide... > It had no telephone lines or Internet service. I wonder how the CIA got this info from Abbottabad Telecom. Pay someone? Hack into their systems? In my imagination it's someone local going undercover to work for them and extract the info. People think being a spy is James Bond stuff but it's infiltrating a... telecoms company.
- mig39 5y ago
  Wouldn't you be able to see telephone or other cabling going into the building?
- neckardt 5y ago
  Maybe the standard in Pakistan is above ground cables on telephone poles? I would assume an experienced professional would be able to tell which cable delivers power and which delivers phone service with a glance.
- perfopt 5y ago
  People on the ground working for CIA
stefantalpalaru 5y ago
He wasn't "found", but sold by the Pakistani intelligence that was protecting him at the time: https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v37/n10/seymour-m.-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v37/n10/seymour-m.-hersh/the... Not before the CIA faked a vaccination campaign to get some blood samples for confirmation, thus compromising the concept of vaccinations in the region, of course.
bamboozled 5y ago
Title isn't very accurate, misleading. TLDR; after years of hard work and different intelligence tactics being deployed to actually find him they confirmed Osama likely lives at a house due to the number of garments hanging on the line matching the number of people in his family.
quantumsequoia 5y ago
I'm highly skeptical the clothes line was as pivotal as the article makes it out to be It's presents the clothes line as the detail that busted the case wide open. I'm sure they had some more hard evidence to go on before deciding to raid it. Can you imagine intelligence officials in a meeting with Obama: "Mr President, this house in Pakistan hangs up too many clothes to dry. It has to be Bin Laden"
- voakbasda 5y ago
  Indeed. This story sounds like a parallel construction aimed at deflecting questions from the true means of his discovery. No idea what they might be trying to hide; mayve a satellite-based ground-penetrating infrared radar with millimeter resolution? Regardless, I would never trust the government to be forthright and honest in such matters.
LatteLazy 5y ago
You have to be impressed that a world famous guy with a huge bounty (25m) on his head and who was pretty recognisable (6-5 in a country that averages 5-5) took so long to catch.

43 points by WheelsAtLarge 5y ago

peakaboo 5y ago

Propaganda much?

johng 5y ago
In what way?
- coldtea 5y ago
  Not sure about propaganda, but sounds like a lame-ass piece, taking for granted what BS official sources said. As if they'd reveal an informant or other (more plausible) means of getting that information. They had arrived at a suspect house, identified the driver, but had to rely on the clothesline for such information? I call BS. But it makes for a good story.
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    It’s hard to disagree with this, it was bs all the way down. There was also the way a vaccination programme was used as a cover for helping find him, causing problems down the line. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2277145-cias-hunt-for-osama-bin-laden-fuelled-vaccine-hesitancy-in-pakistan/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/2277145-cias-hunt-for-o...
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      I'm not a fan of the CIA's methods in general but I don't think blaming them for this lapse in vaccinations is fair. The real cause is the people spreading all these lies about vaccines. In fact I like that they went out of their way to validate their target instead of just going in all cowboy and shooting the place up on limited intel.
      - salawat 5y ago
        Yes. Nevermind that you actually had conspiracy theory level skulduggery going on under the guise of a public health measure further undermining the already tenuous trust that exists under for the neutrality of the public health edifice. Amazing the level of mental gymnastics that people are prone to when the objectives of national security come into relief.
        GekkePrutser 5y ago
        I'm not even American :) Their national security isn't something that would worry me. And I know they often do things in the name of national security that are more about commercial interests. However we are talking about a man who murdered thousands of innocents in cold blood. And shocked the whole world. If people already have distrust for the local medical service, that's a local problem they should address. If they feel like helping to track down a mass murderer makes that health service even less trustworthy, they really are supporting the wrong side. I think the only thing they did wrong was killing Bin Laden. I feel he should have stood trial for that. They shouldn't have killed him no matter how much he deserved it. Even the worst Nazis stood trial. I know it would have given him a stage but it was still wrong. But I think sending a fake medical team in to confirm was a small measure considering what he had done. I'm sure even the police would do things like that in much less important cases.
      - dTal 5y ago
        >In fact I like that they went out of their way to validate their target instead of just going in all cowboy and shooting the place up on limited intel. That's your bar?
  - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
    Well they had to be certain, right? What if the driver was working for someone else, and Bin Laden was nearby but didn't live there? You send in the marines, you don't get Osama, and instead you've basically let him know that he needs to GTFO that city...
  - relativ575 5y ago
    The clothesline was only a clue, they didn't rely on it: "But the final clue was the clotheslines on the compound, which flapped each day with women’s garments, shalwar kameez worn by Pakistani men, children’s outfits and diapers — far more than the 11 members of the bodyguards’ families could ever wear." Perhaps you only read the title? because I agree it's a clickbait.
    - coldtea 5y ago
      >Perhaps you only read the title? Besides the clothelines, I mention two other things that are in the article only. Perhaps you've only skimmed my comment? :-)
cdstyh 5y ago
Much of what the media puts out is propaganda. I'd say a majority of what they release is propaganda.
zrth 5y ago
Tbh, i think it's just advertising for a book disguised as news.
- verdverm 5y ago
  No mention of laundry here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhunt_for_Osama_bin_Laden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhunt_for_Osama_bin_Laden

bellyfullofbac 5y ago

Interesting insight into op-sec failures when trying to hide... > It had no telephone lines or Internet service. I wonder how the CIA got this info from Abbottabad Telecom. Pay someone? Hack into their systems? In my imagination it's someone local going undercover to work for them and extract the info. People think being a spy is James Bond stuff but it's infiltrating a... telecoms company.

mig39 5y ago
Wouldn't you be able to see telephone or other cabling going into the building?
neckardt 5y ago
Maybe the standard in Pakistan is above ground cables on telephone poles? I would assume an experienced professional would be able to tell which cable delivers power and which delivers phone service with a glance.
perfopt 5y ago
People on the ground working for CIA

stefantalpalaru 5y ago

He wasn't "found", but sold by the Pakistani intelligence that was protecting him at the time: https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v37/n10/seymour-m.-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v37/n10/seymour-m.-hersh/the... Not before the CIA faked a vaccination campaign to get some blood samples for confirmation, thus compromising the concept of vaccinations in the region, of course.

bamboozled 5y ago

Title isn't very accurate, misleading. TLDR; after years of hard work and different intelligence tactics being deployed to actually find him they confirmed Osama likely lives at a house due to the number of garments hanging on the line matching the number of people in his family.

quantumsequoia 5y ago

I'm highly skeptical the clothes line was as pivotal as the article makes it out to be It's presents the clothes line as the detail that busted the case wide open. I'm sure they had some more hard evidence to go on before deciding to raid it. Can you imagine intelligence officials in a meeting with Obama: "Mr President, this house in Pakistan hangs up too many clothes to dry. It has to be Bin Laden"

voakbasda 5y ago
Indeed. This story sounds like a parallel construction aimed at deflecting questions from the true means of his discovery. No idea what they might be trying to hide; mayve a satellite-based ground-penetrating infrared radar with millimeter resolution? Regardless, I would never trust the government to be forthright and honest in such matters.

LatteLazy 5y ago

You have to be impressed that a world famous guy with a huge bounty (25m) on his head and who was pretty recognisable (6-5 in a country that averages 5-5) took so long to catch.