6 ms·

What psychology says about Covid non-compliers

9 points by rualca 5y ago

peakaboo 5y ago
Covid non-compliers.... If you are going to force vaccinate the entire planet with an experimental vaccine, against people's will, you bet that people will not comply. They shouldn't. Go read r/CovidVaccinated for hundreds, if not thousands of people who has extreme side effects from that vaccine. We have no information about the long term effects of it either. Could be infertility, could be cancer, anything. Will take years to find out. Us non-compliers will wait.
- rualca 5y ago
  > If you are going to force vaccinate the entire planet with an experimental vaccine (...) Which vaccine do you believe is experimental? If you familiarize yourselft with a vaccine's standard clinical trials and approval process, you'll learn that all major vaccines being rolled out finished all their clinical trials last year. Recommended reading: * https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/basics/test-approve.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/basics/test-approve.html * https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta... * https://www.ajmc.com/view/a-timeline-of-covid-19-vaccine-developments-in-2021 https://www.ajmc.com/view/a-timeline-of-covid-19-vaccine-dev...
  - peytn 5y ago
    I don’t think that’s true? I work in biotech and I’ve seen presentations that mention ongoing DART testing in passing. I don’t know the actual status. I found this trial as well: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04754594 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04754594
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  > We have no information about the long term effects of it either. Could be infertility, could be cancer, anything. Will take years to find out. So... what are the long term effects of Covid? Could be infertility, could be cancer.
  - patrick451 5y ago
    Do any of the other coronaviruses we've known about for a long time do such things?
    - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
      Ooh, so you rely on research? Huh, so has any vaccine caused cancer? Or do you think the scientists have ruled that possibility out, just like they've ruled out the possibility of coronaviruses to cause cancer? There's even info on what the vaccine actually does: https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source-code-of-the-biontech-pfizer-vaccine/ https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source...
      - patrick451 5y ago
        We've been looking at coronaviruses for a long, long time. Meanwhile, mRNA vaccines have been deployed for less than 12 months. So I believe our understanding of mRNA vaccines is likely to be substantially less accurate and complete.
Lammy 5y ago
echo "Alarmingly, the non-compliant group were more likely than the compliant group to […] exercise their right to freedom" >> ~/zeitgeist.txt
Zababa 5y ago
We talked about this last night with my family, and found out that most people that don't want to get vaccinated that we know were people not affected by the second lockdown (in France) because they didn't follow the rules. I understand why some people don't want to get vaccinated, but on the other hand I feel like they're just exploiting the part of the population that's compliant. I wish there was a way to easily divided everyone, like "this city is for non-compliers, and this one is for compliers". I'm starting a new job soon and I'd like to be able to go to work normally. I don't want to be under a lockdown again because some people can't stop themselves from partying, don't want to get the vaccine and don't want to follow the rules. I guess this is just another prisonner's dilemma.
- peakaboo 5y ago
  For me it'd not about partying. It's about keeping my body healthy and not injecting it with chemicals and risking long term damage for the rest of my life. I don't believe the vaccine is better than my natural antibodies at fighting covid. I also believe most of us already had covid and we have antibodies already. Also, you are saying that you value avoiding a lockdown more than letting people on the planet decide what goes into their bodies. I can't agree with that. If we don't have freedom to decide that, we are nothing. Just resources to be exploited.
  - Zababa 5y ago
    > Also, you are saying that you value avoiding a lockdown more than letting people on the planet decide what goes into their bodies. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying I value avoiding a lockdown more than personally not getting a vaccine. I wish people that think like me could go our own way, and people that think like you could go their own way. I don't like how every discussion about the vaccine is turning into a "us vs them". You're free to decide whatever you do with the vaccine, I think that's a fundamental right. On the other hand, I'd like the situation to return to normal one day. But not bad enough to force people to vaccinate.
    - peakaboo 5y ago
euroderf 5y ago
When stupid people willfully do stupid stuff, it's a fun parlor game to question their psychological health. In other words, it's typically not cool to pose that question. But w.r.t. vaccination it's beyond fair to do so.
mrkramer 5y ago
"They're less open to new ideas, and more extroverted and driven by self-interests." This is something like Karl Marx describing capitalism and entrepreneurs. It's wrong. I'm against mandatory vaccination and I am open to new ideas, I'm introvert and I'm not driven by self-interests in fact I'm driven by interests of all stakeholders. So the article's statement is completely wrong. Edit: Endless lockdowns are more devastating for poor and lower class people. Middle class and rich people will always find their way around. Funny enough while ago when I watched a documentary about Italian Mafia researchers said that even criminals understand that so called FUD (Fear, uncertainty, and doubt) is only hurting their business because society can't function like that and they decided to end endless wars, conflicts and violence in order to minimize civil unrest and make people feel happy and safe again.
- aaron-santos 5y ago
  Honest question, do you think you're about average in the population of those who are against mandatory vaccination?
  - mrkramer 5y ago
    Probably I'm not but all the people that I know who are not willing to vaccinate do not fear COVID and all the people that I know who are vaccinated fear COVID. I think just like UK government said it is your personal responsibility to protect yourself, your family and your friends, government is here after all to step in and help you with health care and legal protection and assistance if necessary.
    - aaron-santos 5y ago
      Thanks for responding. It's helpful to understand exactly the argument some people are making. Would it be fair to characterize your rebuttal as "Because I'm a counter example, the article's conclusions are wrong"?
      - mrkramer 5y ago
bamboozled 5y ago
We're living in different times because of the way we receive and curate data as an individual. Before social media, you'd watch the news, radio etc with your family, people in your community and workplace, as a group it probably made sense to agree to getting vaccinated. In 2021 its "my choice", to not do x and to y. In 2021 people come primed to a discussion or a decision with a huge artillery of "facts" they've spent time being recommended by algorithms. This seems to be unique and unparalleled in history.
- Fjolsvith 5y ago
  Huh. Why didn't social media step up and feed a huge artillery of "facts" to encourage people to do the "right" thing and get the vaccine jab?
  - bamboozled 5y ago
    For some people it did, and for some people it didn't ? Likely based on their past browsing experience ?
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    > Why didn't social media step up and feed a huge artillery of "facts" to encourage people to do the "right" thing and get the vaccine jab? Would that have been profitable for them in all cases? If it wasn't, then they didn't. it's not just the effort of "step up", which I have seen on social media. It's the effort to suppress disinformation, which although we have seen some, a lot more gets through. I haven't seen much antivax stuff, but that's because the algorithms know me. You have to understand how much of the "on social media" experience is tailored to you, and how much YMMV. And how it's driven by engagement for profit, not by "stepping up" to do the right thing. e.g. Youtube radicalisation: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/08/technology/youtube-radical.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/08/technology/yo... https://theconversation.com/youtubes-algorithms-might-radicalise-people-but-the-real-problem-is-weve-no-idea-how-they-work-129955 https://theconversation.com/youtubes-algorithms-might-radica...
doggodaddo78 5y ago
How it would've worked in the 1930's: Mandatory vaccines by social forces. No vaccine, get shunned and shut-out of stores, social gatherings, and commerce. No comfort animals or religious dodges. Do what's right, not because of a Rand Paul grandstanding tantrum or tribal conspiracy theories about freedumbs, but because of common sense and scientific evidence.

9 points by rualca 5y ago

Covid non-compliers.... If you are going to force vaccinate the entire planet with an experimental vaccine, against people's will, you bet that people will not comply. They shouldn't. Go read r/CovidVaccinated for hundreds, if not thousands of people who has extreme side effects from that vaccine. We have no information about the long term effects of it either. Could be infertility, could be cancer, anything. Will take years to find out. Us non-compliers will wait.

rualca 5y ago
> If you are going to force vaccinate the entire planet with an experimental vaccine (...) Which vaccine do you believe is experimental? If you familiarize yourselft with a vaccine's standard clinical trials and approval process, you'll learn that all major vaccines being rolled out finished all their clinical trials last year. Recommended reading: * https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/basics/test-approve.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/basics/test-approve.html * https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta... * https://www.ajmc.com/view/a-timeline-of-covid-19-vaccine-developments-in-2021 https://www.ajmc.com/view/a-timeline-of-covid-19-vaccine-dev...
- peytn 5y ago
  I don’t think that’s true? I work in biotech and I’ve seen presentations that mention ongoing DART testing in passing. I don’t know the actual status. I found this trial as well: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04754594 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04754594
bellyfullofbac 5y ago
> We have no information about the long term effects of it either. Could be infertility, could be cancer, anything. Will take years to find out. So... what are the long term effects of Covid? Could be infertility, could be cancer.
- patrick451 5y ago
  Do any of the other coronaviruses we've known about for a long time do such things?
  - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
    Ooh, so you rely on research? Huh, so has any vaccine caused cancer? Or do you think the scientists have ruled that possibility out, just like they've ruled out the possibility of coronaviruses to cause cancer? There's even info on what the vaccine actually does: https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source-code-of-the-biontech-pfizer-vaccine/ https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source...
    - patrick451 5y ago
      We've been looking at coronaviruses for a long, long time. Meanwhile, mRNA vaccines have been deployed for less than 12 months. So I believe our understanding of mRNA vaccines is likely to be substantially less accurate and complete.

Lammy 5y ago

echo "Alarmingly, the non-compliant group were more likely than the compliant group to […] exercise their right to freedom" >> ~/zeitgeist.txt

Zababa 5y ago

We talked about this last night with my family, and found out that most people that don't want to get vaccinated that we know were people not affected by the second lockdown (in France) because they didn't follow the rules. I understand why some people don't want to get vaccinated, but on the other hand I feel like they're just exploiting the part of the population that's compliant. I wish there was a way to easily divided everyone, like "this city is for non-compliers, and this one is for compliers". I'm starting a new job soon and I'd like to be able to go to work normally. I don't want to be under a lockdown again because some people can't stop themselves from partying, don't want to get the vaccine and don't want to follow the rules. I guess this is just another prisonner's dilemma.

peakaboo 5y ago
For me it'd not about partying. It's about keeping my body healthy and not injecting it with chemicals and risking long term damage for the rest of my life. I don't believe the vaccine is better than my natural antibodies at fighting covid. I also believe most of us already had covid and we have antibodies already. Also, you are saying that you value avoiding a lockdown more than letting people on the planet decide what goes into their bodies. I can't agree with that. If we don't have freedom to decide that, we are nothing. Just resources to be exploited.
- Zababa 5y ago
  > Also, you are saying that you value avoiding a lockdown more than letting people on the planet decide what goes into their bodies. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying I value avoiding a lockdown more than personally not getting a vaccine. I wish people that think like me could go our own way, and people that think like you could go their own way. I don't like how every discussion about the vaccine is turning into a "us vs them". You're free to decide whatever you do with the vaccine, I think that's a fundamental right. On the other hand, I'd like the situation to return to normal one day. But not bad enough to force people to vaccinate.
  - peakaboo 5y ago

euroderf 5y ago

When stupid people willfully do stupid stuff, it's a fun parlor game to question their psychological health. In other words, it's typically not cool to pose that question. But w.r.t. vaccination it's beyond fair to do so.

mrkramer 5y ago

"They're less open to new ideas, and more extroverted and driven by self-interests." This is something like Karl Marx describing capitalism and entrepreneurs. It's wrong. I'm against mandatory vaccination and I am open to new ideas, I'm introvert and I'm not driven by self-interests in fact I'm driven by interests of all stakeholders. So the article's statement is completely wrong. Edit: Endless lockdowns are more devastating for poor and lower class people. Middle class and rich people will always find their way around. Funny enough while ago when I watched a documentary about Italian Mafia researchers said that even criminals understand that so called FUD (Fear, uncertainty, and doubt) is only hurting their business because society can't function like that and they decided to end endless wars, conflicts and violence in order to minimize civil unrest and make people feel happy and safe again.

aaron-santos 5y ago
Honest question, do you think you're about average in the population of those who are against mandatory vaccination?
- mrkramer 5y ago
  Probably I'm not but all the people that I know who are not willing to vaccinate do not fear COVID and all the people that I know who are vaccinated fear COVID. I think just like UK government said it is your personal responsibility to protect yourself, your family and your friends, government is here after all to step in and help you with health care and legal protection and assistance if necessary.
  - aaron-santos 5y ago
    Thanks for responding. It's helpful to understand exactly the argument some people are making. Would it be fair to characterize your rebuttal as "Because I'm a counter example, the article's conclusions are wrong"?
    - mrkramer 5y ago

bamboozled 5y ago

We're living in different times because of the way we receive and curate data as an individual. Before social media, you'd watch the news, radio etc with your family, people in your community and workplace, as a group it probably made sense to agree to getting vaccinated. In 2021 its "my choice", to not do x and to y. In 2021 people come primed to a discussion or a decision with a huge artillery of "facts" they've spent time being recommended by algorithms. This seems to be unique and unparalleled in history.

Fjolsvith 5y ago
Huh. Why didn't social media step up and feed a huge artillery of "facts" to encourage people to do the "right" thing and get the vaccine jab?
- bamboozled 5y ago
  For some people it did, and for some people it didn't ? Likely based on their past browsing experience ?
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  > Why didn't social media step up and feed a huge artillery of "facts" to encourage people to do the "right" thing and get the vaccine jab? Would that have been profitable for them in all cases? If it wasn't, then they didn't. it's not just the effort of "step up", which I have seen on social media. It's the effort to suppress disinformation, which although we have seen some, a lot more gets through. I haven't seen much antivax stuff, but that's because the algorithms know me. You have to understand how much of the "on social media" experience is tailored to you, and how much YMMV. And how it's driven by engagement for profit, not by "stepping up" to do the right thing. e.g. Youtube radicalisation: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/08/technology/youtube-radical.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/08/technology/yo... https://theconversation.com/youtubes-algorithms-might-radicalise-people-but-the-real-problem-is-weve-no-idea-how-they-work-129955 https://theconversation.com/youtubes-algorithms-might-radica...

doggodaddo78 5y ago

How it would've worked in the 1930's: Mandatory vaccines by social forces. No vaccine, get shunned and shut-out of stores, social gatherings, and commerce. No comfort animals or religious dodges. Do what's right, not because of a Rand Paul grandstanding tantrum or tribal conspiracy theories about freedumbs, but because of common sense and scientific evidence.