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Missing from this headline "Associated with Large Public Gatherings". Its worth noting... - Vaccination is not equal to 100% immunity as some folks appear to

Missing from this headline "Associated with Large Public Gatherings". Its worth noting... - Vaccination is not equal to 100% immunity as some folks appear to think. - Vaccination means a significant reduced risk of getting COVID. - Vaccination means that if you get COVID your risk for death is significantly lower. With Delta variants right now, it is worth noting... - Variants will continue to mutate as a significant % of people go unvaccinated. - Variants seem to pose higher risk for all, but vaccination still reduces risk. - Vaccinated folks with a COVID variant are equally contagious - but possibly for a shorter period of time (early days). Summary: You're not special. Get a vaccination. We are in this together. Am not interested in rebutting every issue someone flags with this - its a high-level generalization. Am not a doctor etc. Look to CDC for guidance and authority.

briefcomment 5y ago
This is the CDC
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  There's a big difference between "this thing comes from the CDC" and "I am qualified to accurately interpret this thing that came from the CDC".
  - briefcomment 5y ago
    This seems like a straightforward study.
ghoward 5y ago
> Am not interested in rebutting every issue someone flags with this - its a high-level generalization. Am not a doctor etc. Look to CDC for guidance and authority. I understand, but you have a glaring bit of misinformation: > - Variants will continue to mutate as a significant % of people go unvaccinated. The virus mutates in vaccinated people as well. If the entire population was vaccinated, we would still get new variants, mutating enough to defeat vaccines.
- bamboozled 5y ago
  Common sense would have it that if the virus was under attack from the moment it entered your body, it’s less likely to mutate, than if it’s lingering for weeks in an unvaccinated person doing its thing?
  - briefcomment 5y ago
    I would assume any sort of attack, if it's not able to outright kill the virus, would accelerate mutation. The experts have conceded for a while now that the vaccine has been proven to reduce symptoms, but not necessarily reduce spread, so probably the right environment for mutation.
    - bamboozled 5y ago
      So where are all the crazy new mutations then ? I can tell who has been recommended Darkhorse podcast pretty quickly. I've listened to it too.
      - briefcomment 5y ago
        I'm not saying there should be mutations. Just that if there are mutations, it's not clear whether the vaccinated or unvaccinated would be stronger drivers of it.
        bamboozled 5y ago
        Exactly so is it useful to constantly speculate about it ?
bananabiscuit 5y ago
I’m curious why people think vaccinations will solve the mutated variants problem. We’ve been told from the very beginning that the vaccines only reduce symptoms and only marginally prevent you from getting COVID in the first place. If people are still getting it, why would there be any less of a chance for SARS-cov-2 to mutate? In fact, if the vaccines specifically only target spike, that would, if anything cause a selective pressure for the virus to mutate it’s spike protein.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > In fact, if the vaccines specifically only target spike, that would, if anything cause a selective pressure for the virus to mutate it’s spike protein. My understanding is that changes to the spike protein significant enough to escape vaccines entirely are likely to also render it unable to enter the cell.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > We’ve been told from the very beginning that the vaccines only reduce symptoms and only marginally prevent you from getting COVID in the first place. No, we’ve been told that the mRNA vaccines are, based on the current evidence, both “ highly effective against hospitalization and death for a variety of strains, including Alpha (B.1.1.7), Beta (B.1.351), Gamma (P.1), and Delta (B.1.617.2)” and that they make the vaccinated “less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2 or to transmit it to others”, though they have “lower effectiveness against confirmed infection and symptomatic disease caused by the Beta, Gamma, and Delta variants compared with the ancestral strain and Alpha variant.” https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br...
  - bananabiscuit 5y ago
    So if that is the current understanding of how the vaccine works, isn’t it important to follow up on data that seems to not align with those statements? If 69% of people are vaccinated, I would expect <69% of recent COVID cases to be from the vaccinated. When we get data that contradicts what we expect, it needs to be taken seriously, it needs to be broadcast, it needs to be followed up on, and the correct conclusions need to be drawn from experts in a transparent way.
Ancapistani 5y ago
> - Vaccination means a significant reduced risk of getting COVID. Can you provide a source for this? To be clear, I’m absolutely not arguing that you’re wrong. What I am saying is that I’ve not seen a source for this oft-repeated assertion, and that the data in the linked article contradicts it - a larger proportion of people in that cohort who were fully vaccinated got COVID than those those who were unvaccinated. It seems like a glaring omission to me that they didn’t enumerate the number of unvaccinated people who had recovered from previous COVID infections. If that number is substantial it would explain why the proportions are so different from what you might expect.
- arn 5y ago
  See https://twitter.com/bob_wachter/status/1420974072414957570?s=21 https://twitter.com/bob_wachter/status/1420974072414957570?s... Which references a cdc documebt

briefcomment 5y ago

This is the CDC

ceejayoz 5y ago
There's a big difference between "this thing comes from the CDC" and "I am qualified to accurately interpret this thing that came from the CDC".
- briefcomment 5y ago
  This seems like a straightforward study.

ghoward 5y ago

> Am not interested in rebutting every issue someone flags with this - its a high-level generalization. Am not a doctor etc. Look to CDC for guidance and authority. I understand, but you have a glaring bit of misinformation: > - Variants will continue to mutate as a significant % of people go unvaccinated. The virus mutates in vaccinated people as well. If the entire population was vaccinated, we would still get new variants, mutating enough to defeat vaccines.

bamboozled 5y ago
Common sense would have it that if the virus was under attack from the moment it entered your body, it’s less likely to mutate, than if it’s lingering for weeks in an unvaccinated person doing its thing?
- briefcomment 5y ago
  I would assume any sort of attack, if it's not able to outright kill the virus, would accelerate mutation. The experts have conceded for a while now that the vaccine has been proven to reduce symptoms, but not necessarily reduce spread, so probably the right environment for mutation.
  - bamboozled 5y ago
    So where are all the crazy new mutations then ? I can tell who has been recommended Darkhorse podcast pretty quickly. I've listened to it too.
    - briefcomment 5y ago
      I'm not saying there should be mutations. Just that if there are mutations, it's not clear whether the vaccinated or unvaccinated would be stronger drivers of it.
      - bamboozled 5y ago
        Exactly so is it useful to constantly speculate about it ?

bananabiscuit 5y ago

I’m curious why people think vaccinations will solve the mutated variants problem. We’ve been told from the very beginning that the vaccines only reduce symptoms and only marginally prevent you from getting COVID in the first place. If people are still getting it, why would there be any less of a chance for SARS-cov-2 to mutate? In fact, if the vaccines specifically only target spike, that would, if anything cause a selective pressure for the virus to mutate it’s spike protein.

ceejayoz 5y ago
> In fact, if the vaccines specifically only target spike, that would, if anything cause a selective pressure for the virus to mutate it’s spike protein. My understanding is that changes to the spike protein significant enough to escape vaccines entirely are likely to also render it unable to enter the cell.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> We’ve been told from the very beginning that the vaccines only reduce symptoms and only marginally prevent you from getting COVID in the first place. No, we’ve been told that the mRNA vaccines are, based on the current evidence, both “ highly effective against hospitalization and death for a variety of strains, including Alpha (B.1.1.7), Beta (B.1.351), Gamma (P.1), and Delta (B.1.617.2)” and that they make the vaccinated “less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2 or to transmit it to others”, though they have “lower effectiveness against confirmed infection and symptomatic disease caused by the Beta, Gamma, and Delta variants compared with the ancestral strain and Alpha variant.” https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br...
- bananabiscuit 5y ago
  So if that is the current understanding of how the vaccine works, isn’t it important to follow up on data that seems to not align with those statements? If 69% of people are vaccinated, I would expect <69% of recent COVID cases to be from the vaccinated. When we get data that contradicts what we expect, it needs to be taken seriously, it needs to be broadcast, it needs to be followed up on, and the correct conclusions need to be drawn from experts in a transparent way.

Ancapistani 5y ago

> - Vaccination means a significant reduced risk of getting COVID. Can you provide a source for this? To be clear, I’m absolutely not arguing that you’re wrong. What I am saying is that I’ve not seen a source for this oft-repeated assertion, and that the data in the linked article contradicts it - a larger proportion of people in that cohort who were fully vaccinated got COVID than those those who were unvaccinated. It seems like a glaring omission to me that they didn’t enumerate the number of unvaccinated people who had recovered from previous COVID infections. If that number is substantial it would explain why the proportions are so different from what you might expect.

arn 5y ago
See https://twitter.com/bob_wachter/status/1420974072414957570?s=21 https://twitter.com/bob_wachter/status/1420974072414957570?s... Which references a cdc documebt