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Agree on your first two points. That’s what I mean about helping developing nations. We shouldn’t be exporting billions of pounds of plastic waste to places tha

Agree on your first two points. That’s what I mean about helping developing nations. We shouldn’t be exporting billions of pounds of plastic waste to places that cannot ensure proper disposal. By focusing resources on waste management and international cooperation we would be focusing on 90% of the ocean plastics problem instead of directing our resources at well managed waste streams that do little environmental damage by comparison. Being pragmatic is very different than being indifferent. At the end of the day a plastic bag in a landfill is a way better outcome than a plastic bag in a waterway, and also arguably better than spending 43-250x more energy mostly from fossil fuels producing paper/glass/aluminum instead. When there are no perfect solutions, you must choose the least harmful.

Trex_Egg 5y ago
good
3grdlurker 5y ago
And the least harmful is not to dump plastic in a landfill, but to not produce plastics at all. :) Similarly, we can put more money into research on how to produce paper/glass/aluminum/others with less energy, and also redesign consumerism and normalize bringing refillable containers to the grocery down to the household level. There's a lot that can be done that doesn't involve polluting the environment.
- nitrogen 5y ago
  And the least harmful is not to dump plastic in a landfill, but to not produce plastics at all. And all of the human advancements in sanitation, food safety, and transportation energy afforded by plastics? You'd significantly increase CO2 output of transportation if every plastic item was replaced by something heavier. Stopping all plastic production would be very harmful. As for people bringing reusable containers to the store, this was stopped because it's a health hazard.
  - 3grdlurker 5y ago
    OK, we need to be specific that most of the plastic that end up in oceans and landfills are those called "single-use", mostly used in food packaging. > all of the human advancements in sanitation, food safety, and transportation energy afforded by plastics The pollution negates the health benefits of sanitation and food safety though, especially in the places where they are dumped, which are in rural communities in developing countries, whose people are somehow expected to make a living out of it for themselves and for their children. Besides, there are so many uses of plastic in food packaging that aren't even necessary to begin with, and which shouldn't exist. How much of single-use plastics are just bags of unhealthy junk food and candy wrappers and carbonated soda? Is it even necessary to have such a large economy based on unhealthy food sources?
- goodpoint 5y ago
  > redesign consumerism Better: eliminate consumerism
  - 3grdlurker 5y ago
    Absolutely, I just made the wording a little bit """moderate""" to avoid debates I'm not in the mood to have, but I agree.
goodpoint 5y ago
No, there is no such thing as "proper disposal" of plastic.

Trex_Egg 5y ago

good

3grdlurker 5y ago

And the least harmful is not to dump plastic in a landfill, but to not produce plastics at all. :) Similarly, we can put more money into research on how to produce paper/glass/aluminum/others with less energy, and also redesign consumerism and normalize bringing refillable containers to the grocery down to the household level. There's a lot that can be done that doesn't involve polluting the environment.

nitrogen 5y ago
And the least harmful is not to dump plastic in a landfill, but to not produce plastics at all. And all of the human advancements in sanitation, food safety, and transportation energy afforded by plastics? You'd significantly increase CO2 output of transportation if every plastic item was replaced by something heavier. Stopping all plastic production would be very harmful. As for people bringing reusable containers to the store, this was stopped because it's a health hazard.
- 3grdlurker 5y ago
  OK, we need to be specific that most of the plastic that end up in oceans and landfills are those called "single-use", mostly used in food packaging. > all of the human advancements in sanitation, food safety, and transportation energy afforded by plastics The pollution negates the health benefits of sanitation and food safety though, especially in the places where they are dumped, which are in rural communities in developing countries, whose people are somehow expected to make a living out of it for themselves and for their children. Besides, there are so many uses of plastic in food packaging that aren't even necessary to begin with, and which shouldn't exist. How much of single-use plastics are just bags of unhealthy junk food and candy wrappers and carbonated soda? Is it even necessary to have such a large economy based on unhealthy food sources?
goodpoint 5y ago
> redesign consumerism Better: eliminate consumerism
- 3grdlurker 5y ago
  Absolutely, I just made the wording a little bit """moderate""" to avoid debates I'm not in the mood to have, but I agree.

goodpoint 5y ago

No, there is no such thing as "proper disposal" of plastic.