3 ms·

Human Rights are Universal and Unalienable. But it's the fact that Japan chose to ratify the CRC treaty that "makes it so".

gjsman-1000 5y ago
Human Rights as defined by the UN and Politicians are not necessarily Universal or Unalienable. This does not mean I dispute that there are human rights. Politicians have every incentive to claim something as a right when it’s not. For example, the UN could announce the newfound “Right to a Gun-Free Society.” Despite the name, it’s not Universal or Unalienable.
chrisseaton 5y ago
> Human Rights are Universal and Unalienable Clearly not. You can go to many places on earth, even major western countries, where people do not have these rights.
- sheepdestroyer 5y ago
  People always have those rights, no matter where they live, their religion, their cast or what not. That's the definition of Universal. However, they are sometimes not respected and it's the duty of the international community to lobby against the perpetrators especially when they took the moral engagement to recognise them officially. It not the wild west, there are voluntarily agreed upon international treaties that can be brought as a base for these discussions.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    > People always have those rights, no matter where they live, their religion, their cast or what not. Many people do not have these rights. This cannot possibly be a surprise to you? > That's the definition of Universal. We know. That's why they aren't universal rights. > However, they are sometimes not respected If you live under an authority that doesn't think you have these rights, then you don't have them.
    - sheepdestroyer 5y ago
      Of course I do, even under a Human Right violating regime. Human Rights transcend local authorities. And this authority would be both wrong and illegitimate if it has endorsed those Rights by ratifying a treaty that defines them, and somehow doesn't "belive" in them as you put it.
      - chrisseaton 5y ago
        This is a bizarre kind of double-think. If someone the other side of the world tells you that you have the right to freedom of religion, but the authority you live under disagrees, and the people on the other side of the world don't do anything about it, then in what sense do you have the right? You don't - it's meaningless. If I say I have decided that you have the universal inalienable right to beer, but where you live doesn't agree, and I don't do anything about it either, then have I really given you that right? Of course not. I think what you're saying is that you think people should have these rights. Great. But they don't in practice, and so they aren't universal.
        sheepdestroyer 5y ago
        The concept is not new, 232 years old now, it shouldn't be that strange to you. The vocation of tyrants is to have their head cut at some point, more or less figuratively.
        chrisseaton 5y ago
        This whole thread started with you giving an example of how people don't actually have these rights. So even you know they aren't actually universal or inalienable. 232 years of pretending people have rights that they demonstrably do not have.
        sheepdestroyer 5y ago
        You still continue to say that people having their rights violated means they don't exist. That's a demonstrably false and illogical statement. It's because people inherently have rights that they fight for them, and others take their side. Hence events like the French Revolution, the Abolition of slavery, or the Civil Rights Movement.

gjsman-1000 5y ago

Human Rights as defined by the UN and Politicians are not necessarily Universal or Unalienable. This does not mean I dispute that there are human rights. Politicians have every incentive to claim something as a right when it’s not. For example, the UN could announce the newfound “Right to a Gun-Free Society.” Despite the name, it’s not Universal or Unalienable.

chrisseaton 5y ago

> Human Rights are Universal and Unalienable Clearly not. You can go to many places on earth, even major western countries, where people do not have these rights.

sheepdestroyer 5y ago
People always have those rights, no matter where they live, their religion, their cast or what not. That's the definition of Universal. However, they are sometimes not respected and it's the duty of the international community to lobby against the perpetrators especially when they took the moral engagement to recognise them officially. It not the wild west, there are voluntarily agreed upon international treaties that can be brought as a base for these discussions.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > People always have those rights, no matter where they live, their religion, their cast or what not. Many people do not have these rights. This cannot possibly be a surprise to you? > That's the definition of Universal. We know. That's why they aren't universal rights. > However, they are sometimes not respected If you live under an authority that doesn't think you have these rights, then you don't have them.
  - sheepdestroyer 5y ago
    Of course I do, even under a Human Right violating regime. Human Rights transcend local authorities. And this authority would be both wrong and illegitimate if it has endorsed those Rights by ratifying a treaty that defines them, and somehow doesn't "belive" in them as you put it.
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      This is a bizarre kind of double-think. If someone the other side of the world tells you that you have the right to freedom of religion, but the authority you live under disagrees, and the people on the other side of the world don't do anything about it, then in what sense do you have the right? You don't - it's meaningless. If I say I have decided that you have the universal inalienable right to beer, but where you live doesn't agree, and I don't do anything about it either, then have I really given you that right? Of course not. I think what you're saying is that you think people should have these rights. Great. But they don't in practice, and so they aren't universal.
      - sheepdestroyer 5y ago
        The concept is not new, 232 years old now, it shouldn't be that strange to you. The vocation of tyrants is to have their head cut at some point, more or less figuratively.
        chrisseaton 5y ago
        This whole thread started with you giving an example of how people don't actually have these rights. So even you know they aren't actually universal or inalienable. 232 years of pretending people have rights that they demonstrably do not have.
        sheepdestroyer 5y ago
        You still continue to say that people having their rights violated means they don't exist. That's a demonstrably false and illogical statement. It's because people inherently have rights that they fight for them, and others take their side. Hence events like the French Revolution, the Abolition of slavery, or the Civil Rights Movement.