3 ms·

Electric cars have much lower life cycle emissions, new study confirms

29 points by kieranmaine 5y ago

pcdoodle 5y ago
This especially makes sense if your controller is nice to the batteries. I would guess if we brought the 0-60 times down and charge/discharge cycling range to 45-75%, we could see battery packs lasting 30+ years in warmer climates. Then it's a matter of replacing rubber and brakes.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  >charge/discharge cycling range to 45-75% I assumed most EV's let you set this when you are charging or am I expecting too much?
  - belval 5y ago
    One anecdotal data point but Tesla does let you set a charge limit to enforce this buffer. As for a discharge limit it's just about being careful I suppose.
- pestatije 5y ago
  Is the charge/discharge range really an issue? 45-75% vs. 10-90%. I'm not an expert but from what I've read seems hi-speed charging is more relevant regarding battery life.
  - Saris 5y ago
    From some research I've done, charging to 90% vs 100% roughly doubles lifespan, 80% vs 90% doubles it again, and it has less and less impact below 80%. Discharging to 20% vs 0% doesn't seem to have as much of an impact, but still noticeable. So 20-80% or something like that is a good cycle range to use. Heat is also a big factor, well insulated batteries with active liquid cooling or similar should help a lot. With good insulation you can control the temperature of the batteries better on hot days because the ambient heat isn't warming them up as much. It's also useful in the winter to keep them warm. Battery thermals is something Tesla seems to realize is important at least, it seems like many other electric cars don't really do active thermals, and that results in hot batteries just from parking outside on a hot day.
    - pcdoodle 5y ago
      Nice! What sort of rig do you use to test battery cycling?
foolzcrow 5y ago
Tech polution offsets this as does electricity production. Net gain when including production factors is zilch. Climate change is about controlling plebs. That's why elite climate politicians own 5 houses on average. Maybe we deserve to be ruled over.
Lammy 5y ago
On the flip side they're heavy and tear up the roads a lot more than lighter vehicles: https://eos.org/articles/road-dust-a-health-hazard-hidden-in-plain-sight https://eos.org/articles/road-dust-a-health-hazard-hidden-in... https://thenextavenue.com/2020/12/08/curb-weight-why-electric-vehicles-are-putting-on-pounds/ https://thenextavenue.com/2020/12/08/curb-weight-why-electri...
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  It doesn't really make that much difference. The vast majority of road wear is caused by commercial rigs [1]. Road wear from passenger vehicles is small in comparison, and the comparatively small increases in EV weight won't do much to change that. Even with a few hundred extra kilos of batteries in an EV, an empty tractor-trailer weighs at least five times more [2]. 1 - https://truecostblog.com/2009/06/02/the-hidden-trucking-industry-subsidy/ https://truecostblog.com/2009/06/02/the-hidden-trucking-indu... 2 - https://www.tcsfuel.com/blog/truck-weight-classification/ https://www.tcsfuel.com/blog/truck-weight-classification/

29 points by kieranmaine 5y ago

This especially makes sense if your controller is nice to the batteries. I would guess if we brought the 0-60 times down and charge/discharge cycling range to 45-75%, we could see battery packs lasting 30+ years in warmer climates. Then it's a matter of replacing rubber and brakes.

tonyedgecombe 5y ago
>charge/discharge cycling range to 45-75% I assumed most EV's let you set this when you are charging or am I expecting too much?
- belval 5y ago
  One anecdotal data point but Tesla does let you set a charge limit to enforce this buffer. As for a discharge limit it's just about being careful I suppose.
pestatije 5y ago
Is the charge/discharge range really an issue? 45-75% vs. 10-90%. I'm not an expert but from what I've read seems hi-speed charging is more relevant regarding battery life.
- Saris 5y ago
  From some research I've done, charging to 90% vs 100% roughly doubles lifespan, 80% vs 90% doubles it again, and it has less and less impact below 80%. Discharging to 20% vs 0% doesn't seem to have as much of an impact, but still noticeable. So 20-80% or something like that is a good cycle range to use. Heat is also a big factor, well insulated batteries with active liquid cooling or similar should help a lot. With good insulation you can control the temperature of the batteries better on hot days because the ambient heat isn't warming them up as much. It's also useful in the winter to keep them warm. Battery thermals is something Tesla seems to realize is important at least, it seems like many other electric cars don't really do active thermals, and that results in hot batteries just from parking outside on a hot day.
  - pcdoodle 5y ago
    Nice! What sort of rig do you use to test battery cycling?

foolzcrow 5y ago

Tech polution offsets this as does electricity production. Net gain when including production factors is zilch. Climate change is about controlling plebs. That's why elite climate politicians own 5 houses on average. Maybe we deserve to be ruled over.

Lammy 5y ago

On the flip side they're heavy and tear up the roads a lot more than lighter vehicles: https://eos.org/articles/road-dust-a-health-hazard-hidden-in-plain-sight https://eos.org/articles/road-dust-a-health-hazard-hidden-in... https://thenextavenue.com/2020/12/08/curb-weight-why-electric-vehicles-are-putting-on-pounds/ https://thenextavenue.com/2020/12/08/curb-weight-why-electri...

nate_meurer 5y ago
It doesn't really make that much difference. The vast majority of road wear is caused by commercial rigs [1]. Road wear from passenger vehicles is small in comparison, and the comparatively small increases in EV weight won't do much to change that. Even with a few hundred extra kilos of batteries in an EV, an empty tractor-trailer weighs at least five times more [2]. 1 - https://truecostblog.com/2009/06/02/the-hidden-trucking-industry-subsidy/ https://truecostblog.com/2009/06/02/the-hidden-trucking-indu... 2 - https://www.tcsfuel.com/blog/truck-weight-classification/ https://www.tcsfuel.com/blog/truck-weight-classification/