4 ms·

I think you're mistaken about the 'y' part; what the author is trying to convey is that [i] in Italian is both the vowel /i/ and the consonant /j/ depending on

I think you're mistaken about the 'y' part; what the author is trying to convey is that [i] in Italian is both the vowel /i/ and the consonant /j/ depending on the context. /j/ is typically rendered in English using [y] (but not always). Pietà is definitely /pje'ta/, not /pie'ta/, like the [i] in ieri /'jeri/ - at least that's how I've always pronounced that. It would have been better if Italian just kept using the letter [j] - it was invented by an Italian guy to solve this kind of ambiguity after all.

olau 5y ago
I don't think the person is mistaken, I think people pronounce it in different ways depending on where they come from. The three examples here does not seem to be pronounced like ieri: https://forvo.com/word/piet%C3%A0/ https://forvo.com/word/piet%C3%A0/ Perchance you're speaking a dialect? Happens to all of us. :) Not a native speaker and my Italian is terrible, but I've always loved the Italian i vowels. They are so clear and distinct.
- riffraff 5y ago
  As a native, I do agree with the original (pietà is not pjetà). So maybe it is a regional pronunciation issue. Or maybe it's like someone who can feel that the proper plural of "figlio" (figli) would have a long "i" (figlî, in some old books) even if it's not really there anymore.
  - qalmakka 5y ago
    Italian phonology is clear - approximants like /j/ and /w/ always appear in diphthongs, unless in very rare occurrences; i.e. ài, èi, éi, òi, ói, ùi; àu, èu, éu -> /aj/, /εj/, /ej/, /ɔj/, /oj/, /uj/; /aw/, / εw/, /ew/. For instance, piede is /'pjede/, while tuorlo is /'tworlo/. IPA in Italian dictionaries is very rare, but the only examples I found specify /'pjeta/. Italian pronunciation has never been standardized by anyone, so pronunciation may vary, but unless my knowledge of phonology is completely wrong there's an appoximant in "pietà", like in pieno /'pjeno/ and piano /'pjano/. To avoid i to switch to /j/ there needs to be a "iato", which splits words onto two separate syllables. For instance, mormorio is /mormo'rio/, not /mormo'rjo/. In this case, the word gets split in syllables as mor-mo-RI-o, and the i doesn't become an approximant. Pietà is pie-TÀ, not pi-e-TÀ, because the ie is in a diphthong, so it's /je/.
ithkuil 5y ago
Gian Giorgio Trissino,. 1524 formalized the distinction. Prior to that it was just two variant shapes of the same letter. I saw it still being used on some street signs. Jonio, Jesolo, ...

olau 5y ago

I don't think the person is mistaken, I think people pronounce it in different ways depending on where they come from. The three examples here does not seem to be pronounced like ieri: https://forvo.com/word/piet%C3%A0/ https://forvo.com/word/piet%C3%A0/ Perchance you're speaking a dialect? Happens to all of us. :) Not a native speaker and my Italian is terrible, but I've always loved the Italian i vowels. They are so clear and distinct.

riffraff 5y ago
As a native, I do agree with the original (pietà is not pjetà). So maybe it is a regional pronunciation issue. Or maybe it's like someone who can feel that the proper plural of "figlio" (figli) would have a long "i" (figlî, in some old books) even if it's not really there anymore.
- qalmakka 5y ago
  Italian phonology is clear - approximants like /j/ and /w/ always appear in diphthongs, unless in very rare occurrences; i.e. ài, èi, éi, òi, ói, ùi; àu, èu, éu -> /aj/, /εj/, /ej/, /ɔj/, /oj/, /uj/; /aw/, / εw/, /ew/. For instance, piede is /'pjede/, while tuorlo is /'tworlo/. IPA in Italian dictionaries is very rare, but the only examples I found specify /'pjeta/. Italian pronunciation has never been standardized by anyone, so pronunciation may vary, but unless my knowledge of phonology is completely wrong there's an appoximant in "pietà", like in pieno /'pjeno/ and piano /'pjano/. To avoid i to switch to /j/ there needs to be a "iato", which splits words onto two separate syllables. For instance, mormorio is /mormo'rio/, not /mormo'rjo/. In this case, the word gets split in syllables as mor-mo-RI-o, and the i doesn't become an approximant. Pietà is pie-TÀ, not pi-e-TÀ, because the ie is in a diphthong, so it's /je/.

ithkuil 5y ago

Gian Giorgio Trissino,. 1524 formalized the distinction. Prior to that it was just two variant shapes of the same letter. I saw it still being used on some street signs. Jonio, Jesolo, ...