3 ms·

Fun fact: Under current conditions (200M users) it looks like Google is paying $2-2.25 per active user annually to be the default search engine in Firefox. "Mo

Fun fact: Under current conditions (200M users) it looks like Google is paying $2-2.25 per active user annually to be the default search engine in Firefox. "Mozilla renewed its search deal with Google in 2020 for three years. The organization will receive an estimate of $400 to $450 million per year from the deal alone. " https://www.ghacks.net/2020/12/10/mozillas-revenue-jumped-to-828-million-u-s-dollar-in-2019/ https://www.ghacks.net/2020/12/10/mozillas-revenue-jumped-to...

tpetry 5y ago
That is a very good deal for google. As ads on the search results are looking more and more like normal results any user without adblocking will click multiple times on these ads in a year. And the cpc prices depending on the topic are really high.
- nerdponx 5y ago
  It's also insurance against antitrust intervention.
- kilroy123 5y ago
  I was thinking the same. It's a bargain and now I understand why Google pays them so much.
bluedevil2k 5y ago
Given how they make a minimum $450M a year in revenue, how on Earth is Mozilla not swimming in cash?! How high can their expenses be?
- rmsaksida 5y ago
  Mozilla pays millions of dollars per year to their CEO, despite the decrease in usage and user base. Could be a symptom of a larger problem in the organization.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    Mozilla also spends its cash on various other bullshit that nobody cares about.
    - TLLtchvL8KZ 5y ago
      Feels like a lifetime ago they were humble-bragging about their Paris office with gold leaf ceilings!
  - gibba999 5y ago
    In general, I don't donate to non-profits where anyone earns more than I do. I've worked for nonprofits for most of my career, and have seen the insides of several. The most effective ones tend to have a small team on shoestring salaries and really need money. The least effective ones have a CEO making $5M and an executive team above $400k. I've seen a lot of people argue that good people cost money, but they don't. I know $5M CEOs, $1M CEOs and $100k CEOs. The $100k CEO was by far the most effective. That said, the Mozilla 990 doesn't look crazy. Many big nonprofits are bad. It's not an organization I'd donate to myself, but it's not one I'd discourage others from donating to either. CEO makes $3M, which isn't really reasonable, but the next-highest salary is $286k. That said, the whole for-profit Mozilla Corporation bit sketches me out. It feels like it might be a way to dodge IRS reporting regulations. I'd want to do due diligence before donating to a non-profit that has a structure like that (it may be innocuous), but I don't have time for due diligence when there are transparent nonprofits too.
  - aftergibson 5y ago
    I use Firefox but I don’t donate anymore which is awful but I want to donate to Firefox not Mozilla. If anyone knows a way to only support Firefox and not Mozilla at large do let me know!
    - pabs3 5y ago
      One way to help Firefox would be to spend some time on Firefox bug reports or patches.
- sciurus 5y ago
  There is a year of lag, but you can read Mozilla's financial statements and Form 990. The latest ones are linked at https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2019/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2019/
- bzbarsky 5y ago
  How many developers do you think a browser engine needs? How much do they cost? But also, the answer to your question is at https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2019/mozilla-fdn-2019-short-form-0926.pdf https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2019/mozilla-fdn-201... and https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2019/mozilla-2019-form-990.pdf https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2019/mozilla-2019-fo... (the 2020 numbers are not up yet because the audit starts when the tax return is filed and lasts for several months, so isn't completed yet). Just for comparison, last I checked Chrome's marketing budget was estimated to be in the ballpark of Mozilla's total budget. Disclaimer: used to work for Mozilla.
  - freediver 5y ago
    > How many developers do you think a browser engine needs? How much do they cost? Browser: ~20 Web rendering engine: ~100 Worldwide average senior C/C++ developer salary: $100k/year So $12M/year should do it. Let's say $20M to allow for management and overhead. Disclaimer: founder of a browser company
    - Jyaif 5y ago
      * They support many platforms (windows, Linux,macOS, android, iOS). * There are server side components (bookmark sync for instance) * They need infrastructure to run the tests, do the builds, handle the bug reports, etc... I don't know where you got your 20% overhead, but from what I heard it's wayyyy off.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > how on Earth is Mozilla not swimming in cash?! How high can their expenses be? Mozilla launches a new idiot side project like once a month. As a Firefox user, it's deeply frustrating to watch bug tickets go unfilled while a multimillion-dollar rebranding rolls out.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
the_biot 5y ago
And yet this gigantic amount of money hasn't resulted in a marked increase of users/functionality etc. It's almost like the Mozilla execs get paid the big bucks no matter how badly they do their jobs. Go figure.
tannhaeuser 5y ago
Come 2023, pray that Google doesn't alter the deal further, with the remaining FF user base in the low single-digit figures. It's a matter of when, not if, Mozilla goes down given this trajectory. Or, Mozilla get's actually paid for working with Google on "web standards" and producing a browser as a fig leaf for the monopoly the WWW has become and counter measure against antitrust (with US antitrust a lame duck anyway), in a Mafia-esque way. It's not like we haven't been telling this all the time, with the HN crowd however cheering Mozilla's erratic ventures into Rust, WASM, and whatnot. (For the record: I'm using FF and actually prefer it over Chrome, especially their DevTools for CSS which I find pretty meh on Chrome, and of course for ad blocking).
- croes 5y ago
  If Firefox goes down, Google has a problem because of browser engine monopoly an Windows.

tpetry 5y ago

That is a very good deal for google. As ads on the search results are looking more and more like normal results any user without adblocking will click multiple times on these ads in a year. And the cpc prices depending on the topic are really high.

nerdponx 5y ago
It's also insurance against antitrust intervention.
kilroy123 5y ago
I was thinking the same. It's a bargain and now I understand why Google pays them so much.

bluedevil2k 5y ago

Given how they make a minimum $450M a year in revenue, how on Earth is Mozilla not swimming in cash?! How high can their expenses be?

rmsaksida 5y ago
Mozilla pays millions of dollars per year to their CEO, despite the decrease in usage and user base. Could be a symptom of a larger problem in the organization.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  Mozilla also spends its cash on various other bullshit that nobody cares about.
  - TLLtchvL8KZ 5y ago
    Feels like a lifetime ago they were humble-bragging about their Paris office with gold leaf ceilings!
- gibba999 5y ago
  In general, I don't donate to non-profits where anyone earns more than I do. I've worked for nonprofits for most of my career, and have seen the insides of several. The most effective ones tend to have a small team on shoestring salaries and really need money. The least effective ones have a CEO making $5M and an executive team above $400k. I've seen a lot of people argue that good people cost money, but they don't. I know $5M CEOs, $1M CEOs and $100k CEOs. The $100k CEO was by far the most effective. That said, the Mozilla 990 doesn't look crazy. Many big nonprofits are bad. It's not an organization I'd donate to myself, but it's not one I'd discourage others from donating to either. CEO makes $3M, which isn't really reasonable, but the next-highest salary is $286k. That said, the whole for-profit Mozilla Corporation bit sketches me out. It feels like it might be a way to dodge IRS reporting regulations. I'd want to do due diligence before donating to a non-profit that has a structure like that (it may be innocuous), but I don't have time for due diligence when there are transparent nonprofits too.
- aftergibson 5y ago
  I use Firefox but I don’t donate anymore which is awful but I want to donate to Firefox not Mozilla. If anyone knows a way to only support Firefox and not Mozilla at large do let me know!
  - pabs3 5y ago
    One way to help Firefox would be to spend some time on Firefox bug reports or patches.
sciurus 5y ago
There is a year of lag, but you can read Mozilla's financial statements and Form 990. The latest ones are linked at https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2019/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2019/
bzbarsky 5y ago
How many developers do you think a browser engine needs? How much do they cost? But also, the answer to your question is at https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2019/mozilla-fdn-2019-short-form-0926.pdf https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2019/mozilla-fdn-201... and https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2019/mozilla-2019-form-990.pdf https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2019/mozilla-2019-fo... (the 2020 numbers are not up yet because the audit starts when the tax return is filed and lasts for several months, so isn't completed yet). Just for comparison, last I checked Chrome's marketing budget was estimated to be in the ballpark of Mozilla's total budget. Disclaimer: used to work for Mozilla.
- freediver 5y ago
  > How many developers do you think a browser engine needs? How much do they cost? Browser: ~20 Web rendering engine: ~100 Worldwide average senior C/C++ developer salary: $100k/year So $12M/year should do it. Let's say $20M to allow for management and overhead. Disclaimer: founder of a browser company
  - Jyaif 5y ago
    * They support many platforms (windows, Linux,macOS, android, iOS). * There are server side components (bookmark sync for instance) * They need infrastructure to run the tests, do the builds, handle the bug reports, etc... I don't know where you got your 20% overhead, but from what I heard it's wayyyy off.
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> how on Earth is Mozilla not swimming in cash?! How high can their expenses be? Mozilla launches a new idiot side project like once a month. As a Firefox user, it's deeply frustrating to watch bug tickets go unfilled while a multimillion-dollar rebranding rolls out.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

the_biot 5y ago

And yet this gigantic amount of money hasn't resulted in a marked increase of users/functionality etc. It's almost like the Mozilla execs get paid the big bucks no matter how badly they do their jobs. Go figure.

tannhaeuser 5y ago

Come 2023, pray that Google doesn't alter the deal further, with the remaining FF user base in the low single-digit figures. It's a matter of when, not if, Mozilla goes down given this trajectory. Or, Mozilla get's actually paid for working with Google on "web standards" and producing a browser as a fig leaf for the monopoly the WWW has become and counter measure against antitrust (with US antitrust a lame duck anyway), in a Mafia-esque way. It's not like we haven't been telling this all the time, with the HN crowd however cheering Mozilla's erratic ventures into Rust, WASM, and whatnot. (For the record: I'm using FF and actually prefer it over Chrome, especially their DevTools for CSS which I find pretty meh on Chrome, and of course for ad blocking).

croes 5y ago
If Firefox goes down, Google has a problem because of browser engine monopoly an Windows.