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We have ticking time bombs all over the place in our households and life that we’ve grown accustomed to. - There’s the ticking time bomb of natural gas going i

We have ticking time bombs all over the place in our households and life that we’ve grown accustomed to. - There’s the ticking time bomb of natural gas going into out homes - The ticking time bomb of AC electric going through our homes that Edison demonstrated could kill an elephant - The ticking time bomb of wood framed stucco houses that could easily catch fire - The ticking time bomb of volatile gasoline in your car catching fire - the ticking time bomb of the Li-Ion battery in your back pocket If you want to live in a technological society, you have to accept and manage these risks from our technology.

Mengkudulangsat 5y ago
Well, I get the point many things we own in the household are already fire hazards. But at least those are either small enough that we can wait for them to burn out on their own (phone batteries) or we can reasonably put out with a fire extinguisher or hose. What exactly are we supposed to do with a large li-on battery burning in the garage? Give up and call insurance?
- vegetablepotpie 5y ago
  What do you do if your car catches on fire in your garage? You call your insurance. How often does that happen? I would say not very, even though gasoline is highly volatile. The onus is on designers and manufacturers to make Li-Ion fires so rare that consumers effectively ignore the risk.
  - mrjin 5y ago
    For conventional cars you might still have a chance to put out the fire using fire extinguishers as the highly combustive materials, mainly fuels, are actually contained and they will not be a problem until vital structures compromised and such deterioration can be avoided by routine services. But there is not much you can do for Li-Ion batteries. Lithium spikes grow each time you charge the battery and eventually those spikes will penetrate membrane between electrodes, beyond which point the explosion will be inevitable: the process needs no air and will not stop until energy stored in the cell fully discharged. For small batteries we can prevent situation from deteriorating by putting them in water. But there is not much can be done for the size in a Tesla. I've seen video footages of two accidently involving those, one was a couple of years ago in the car park of a Shanghai apartment. Started with just a little bit smoke, but in just around 10 seconds, the Tesla was beyond redemption. Luckily there was no casualties. The other one was a tragedy. A guy brought a e-bike in to a lift and just when the lift door was about to close the battery started to burn. Unfortunately they missed the vital second that could stopped the lift door from closing. It turned several people severely burnt, including a baby.
- Mountain_Skies 5y ago
  Fire departments trained and equipped for such fires is the most likely answer though it's possible we'll end up with outbuildings that house the batteries much like garages and stables were detached from homes until automobile were considered safe enough to be parked in a home attached structure.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  Natural gas leaks in a house have been known to destroy the house and all the surrounding houses when they blow up.
waiseristy 5y ago
None of these things are ticking time bombs, they are things with (other than your electricity inside your house) fairly fantastic failure modes. A Lithium Ion battery pack will experience cascade failure in it's lifetime. A tank full of gasoline will not, neither will the circuit panel in your home. Will that battery pack catch fire when it inevitably fails? Who knows, but that's exactly the problem.
- kcb 5y ago
  Yet somehow nearly every house is filled with a dozen or more lithium ion batteries.
  - waiseristy 5y ago
    Ah yeah, and what happens when you increase that number 100x? Adding a powerwall to your house will increase the battery count in your home by 1,000 or more.
- vidarh 5y ago
  Less than a year since the last house with a gas explosion nearish me.

Mengkudulangsat 5y ago

Well, I get the point many things we own in the household are already fire hazards. But at least those are either small enough that we can wait for them to burn out on their own (phone batteries) or we can reasonably put out with a fire extinguisher or hose. What exactly are we supposed to do with a large li-on battery burning in the garage? Give up and call insurance?

vegetablepotpie 5y ago
What do you do if your car catches on fire in your garage? You call your insurance. How often does that happen? I would say not very, even though gasoline is highly volatile. The onus is on designers and manufacturers to make Li-Ion fires so rare that consumers effectively ignore the risk.
- mrjin 5y ago
  For conventional cars you might still have a chance to put out the fire using fire extinguishers as the highly combustive materials, mainly fuels, are actually contained and they will not be a problem until vital structures compromised and such deterioration can be avoided by routine services. But there is not much you can do for Li-Ion batteries. Lithium spikes grow each time you charge the battery and eventually those spikes will penetrate membrane between electrodes, beyond which point the explosion will be inevitable: the process needs no air and will not stop until energy stored in the cell fully discharged. For small batteries we can prevent situation from deteriorating by putting them in water. But there is not much can be done for the size in a Tesla. I've seen video footages of two accidently involving those, one was a couple of years ago in the car park of a Shanghai apartment. Started with just a little bit smoke, but in just around 10 seconds, the Tesla was beyond redemption. Luckily there was no casualties. The other one was a tragedy. A guy brought a e-bike in to a lift and just when the lift door was about to close the battery started to burn. Unfortunately they missed the vital second that could stopped the lift door from closing. It turned several people severely burnt, including a baby.
Mountain_Skies 5y ago
Fire departments trained and equipped for such fires is the most likely answer though it's possible we'll end up with outbuildings that house the batteries much like garages and stables were detached from homes until automobile were considered safe enough to be parked in a home attached structure.
throwawayboise 5y ago
Natural gas leaks in a house have been known to destroy the house and all the surrounding houses when they blow up.

waiseristy 5y ago

None of these things are ticking time bombs, they are things with (other than your electricity inside your house) fairly fantastic failure modes. A Lithium Ion battery pack will experience cascade failure in it's lifetime. A tank full of gasoline will not, neither will the circuit panel in your home. Will that battery pack catch fire when it inevitably fails? Who knows, but that's exactly the problem.

kcb 5y ago
Yet somehow nearly every house is filled with a dozen or more lithium ion batteries.
- waiseristy 5y ago
  Ah yeah, and what happens when you increase that number 100x? Adding a powerwall to your house will increase the battery count in your home by 1,000 or more.
vidarh 5y ago
Less than a year since the last house with a gas explosion nearish me.