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I love this technology a whole lot, but this is Hacker News so it is worthwhile to think critically about this kind of "press release"-style news posting. This
by Spyro7 15y ago
I love this technology a whole lot, but this is Hacker News so it is worthwhile to think critically about this kind of "press release"-style news posting. This article does a bit of hand waving with the numbers, and, while this is an amazingly cool project, I think that they are overselling its benefits.
First, let's get the terminology right. This plant has a capacity of 200 MW. That does not mean that it produces 200 MWh. The formula for converting MW into (annual) MWh is the following:
MWh = MWx365x24xCF
In the above formula, CF is the capacity factor. Capacity factor is basically the amount of energy that a plant is actually able to produce over the course of a year divided by the total capacity of the plant. Here are some common capacity factors for various industries (taken from a private document, so no sources but this stuff is easy enough to google):
* Coal - 65-95%
* Natural Gas - 35-65%
* Hydro - 25-65%
* Solar - 20-35%
* Wind - 20-35%
* Nuclear - 80%+
Capacity factors are never 100% for various reasons:
* Plants may need to be taken offline for refueling, maintenance, or inspection
* For renewables, the wind isn't always going at full speed and the sun isn't always shining
* A whole bunch of other things that I am too tired to list (read the references below, they have some more in them)
Now, let's look at this new project, and one of the claims made in this article.
According to the article, this plant will be able to provide power for 150,000 homes. According to the EIA, the average household annual energy usage is 10,896 KWh. Given this information and using a more generous solar capacity factor (35%):
Number of Homes Powered = (200x365x24x.35) / 10.896 = 56,278 homes
Hmm, well that's just a bit less than what the article claimed, so they must be assuming a really amazing capacity factor for this estimate. Let's solve the below for cf and see what we get....
(200x365x24xcf)/10.896=150000
cf = approx. 93%
Look, I'm all for scientific advancement and alternative energy, but can we try to be more sensible than this? This is a highly improbable capacity factor.
Documents available from Enviro Mission says that the simulated capacity factor will be more like 50%. When we plug that number into the equation we get about 80,397 homes, which is pretty sensible. However, we have to remember that these are only simulated numbers. There are no similar projects currently available that can be compared to this one, so the actual capacity factor may be either more or less.
Note: Please keep in mind that efficiency is a totally different concept from capacity factor. Efficiency is typically used to describe how well a plant transfers from its energy source into electricity^. The capacity of a plant is a number that already incorporates the plant's efficiency. The capacity factor is simply a measure of how much of that capacity is actually used on an annual basis on average.
^ I am not an electrical engineer. I am an economist, that is the best definition I can come up with.
Disclaimer: I am incredibly tired right now, so if any errors appear in the above posting please send me some coffee so that I can correct them before falling asleep.
References:
+ http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3 http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3
+ http://www.solarpaces.org/CSP_Technology/docs/solar_tower.pdf http://www.solarpaces.org/CSP_Technology/docs/solar_tower.pd...
+ http://www.enviromission.com.au/IRM/Company/ShowPage.aspx?CPID=1090 http://www.enviromission.com.au/IRM/Company/ShowPage.aspx?CP...
Edit: Formatting was all messed up the first time. Forgot to include some additional information. Added clarification on efficiency.
- jhchen 15y agoThe most exciting claim to me was how efficient and robust this method of harnessing solar was. In particular: - "Because it works on temperature differential, not absolute temperature, it works in any weather" - "Because the heat of the day warms the ground up so much, it continues working at night" - "It requires virtually no maintenance - apart from a bit of turbine servicing now and then, the tower "just works" once it's going, and lasts as long as its structure stays standing" If these claims are true, then it would make sense for this plant to have a much higher capacity factor than most solar plants given that the major factors lowering CF is mitigated in this design (works at night and no shutdown for maintenance). Maybe I'm stuck in CS land where we think by factors of 10 but the numbers in this article doesn't seem too far off the beaten path.
- aik 15y agoAppreciate the analysis, however I believe you made a fairly significant error with the solar capacity percentage. Unlike other solar power, the cool thing about this structure is that it doesn't specifically require constant sunshine to work effectively being that it works off the temperature differential through the tower, rather than pulling energy strictly from solar panels. Because of this, I would imagine capacity to be much nearer to 100% than the opposite. "for every hundred metres you go up from the surface, the ambient temperature drops by about 1 degree. The greater the temperature differential, the harder the tower sucks up that hot air at the bottom - and the more energy you can generate through the turbines... Because the heat of the day warms the ground up so much, it continues working at night;" As for how the difference in temperature between the surface and 100s of meters in the air changes throughout the day/night, I don't know. So according to your equation, at 80% capacity, it could cover 128k homes. At 93.3% capacity it'd reach 150k.
- dalke 15y agoIt also means less power generation in the morning. The thermal inertia in the base means it lags behind the air temperature, so there will be times when the base and top are the same temperature.
- 15y ago