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Tunisia's life expectancy is 76.7 years. The United States's is 78.7 years. A difference of two years compared to the most wealthy nation on the planet is minor

by caslon 5y ago

Tunisia's life expectancy is 76.7 years. The United States's is 78.7 years. A difference of two years compared to the most wealthy nation on the planet is minor. In fact, your average person in Tunisia is likely to outlast your average person in many US States: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/life_expectancy/life_expectancy.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/life_expectancy/li...

sockaddr 5y ago
This is either erroneous thinking or intentionally misleading. Conflating "outlasting" with "safe" is problem number 1. Problem number two is they said "any western country" and you picked one pretty far down the list. Many western countries have a life expectancy well into the 80's so your citation only works against their argument.
- chakhs 5y ago
  it's clear that OP meant that there are no major differences in safety between Tunisia and a random western country. Meaning you don't have to worry about getting robbed or whatever more than you would in say, England. People don't speak with exactitude, it would be weird.
Zababa 5y ago
And in France it's 82.7 years, the wealth of the US doesn't directly translate to good life expectancy, especially when you've got so many inequalities. The highest life expectancy is at 85 years in Japan. The average life exepctancy in the world in 72.6 years, 79 in Europe, 82.5 in Western Europe. With all due respect to Tunisia, it's better than average but still lower than "any western country".
- 8note 5y ago
  The wealth of the US comes from a few people being extraordinarily wealthy. The p20 of wealth isn't great in the US
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- refurb 5y ago
  Countries also count deaths differently. Some will count a premature baby at 26 weeks that dies as a death (the US), while others just say “it was never viable” so not a death. Don’t need to average very many “zeros” to bring down an average.
  - derriz 5y ago
    That sounds wrong. There’s a whole range of life expectancy metrics that are calculated carefully as they constitute a fundamental metric about a population in everything from the insurance industry to the health industry. Life expectancy metrics are heavily used for geographic and historic comparison as they have standard and specific definition. The starting age is always specified - e.g. life expectancy at 18 or 60 or whatever. When the age is not specified, the implied age is zero or “life expectancy at birth”. I’ve never heard of “life expectancy at conception” nor can think that one country would calculate it but use the value for “life expectancy at birth”.
    - refurb 5y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_mortality https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_mortality There is huge variability in how deaths are reported for newborns. “Many countries, however, including certain European states (e.g. France) and Japan, only count as live births cases where an infant breathes at birth, which makes their reported IMR numbers somewhat lower and increases their rates of perinatal mortality.[111] In the Czech Republic and Bulgaria, for instance, requirements for live birth are even higher.”
      - derriz 5y ago
        Variances in how countries calculate IMR don't affect the calculation of life expectancy at birth which is a standardised measure - see https://www.who.int/whosis/whostat2006DefinitionsAndMetadata.pdf https://www.who.int/whosis/whostat2006DefinitionsAndMetadata...
        refurb 5y ago
- JPLeRouzic 5y ago
  > And in France it's 82.7 years It depends on your occupation (and probably on other factors too). https://www.niussp.org/education-work-economy/france-male-managers-live-six-years-longer-male-manual-workersen-france-un-cadre-vit-six-ans-de-plus-quun-ouvrier/ https://www.niussp.org/education-work-economy/france-male-ma...
  - Zababa 5y ago
    Yes, that's how averages work.
aaomidi 5y ago
We're not talking averages here though are we? Generally dictatorships are *fine* if you don't get political.
- vagrantJin 5y ago
  Thank you for pointing this out. The bad thing about Dictatorships is not the lack of freedom, it's the balancing act of resources and freedom. Wealthy dictatorships really are as chill as any rich democracy as long as you don't start poking the leadership with political ideas that don't benefit them. However, a lack of resources in Democracy or dictatorship will 100% result in civil unrest. Which is interesting because people always adapt to whatever situation they are in. I recall this lady being interviewed on Al Jezeera near the bombardment zone in the Gaza strip a few months ago. She was frustrated about little things like kids not going to school, a bus route being destroyed and what not. Nowhere in her statement did she mention that she and her family just had missles landing a few hundred meters away in the dead of night. Humans are interesting.
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    "Wealthy dictatorships really are as chill as any rich democracy as long as you don't start poking the leadership with political ideas that don't benefit them." Unless of course you are in the way of some of the powerclique and they decide to take over your buisness or land without compensation. Or the spoiled son the of the dictator (or the dictator himself) wants to bang your daughter or your wife. And maybe kills her while doing so. And anyone witnessing or complaining. That means officially also in a dictatorship no one does that. People just go missing or have accidents. Or found guilty of some other "crime". Exaggerating? Well, I just read a book about Trujillo, the former dictator of the dominican republic, it is quite interesting. But he did not invented power abuse. Anywhere where there is unchecked power, those things happen.
    - vagrantJin 5y ago
      And to your mind Bolivia is a thriving economic hub to warrant being a weathy dictatorship? Whatever the case may be, bad apples abound. Thats just human nature. Just because democratic leaders dont do things publicly, I think you should disabuse yourself of the notion that they are incapable of depraved acts of violence. Sexual or otherwise. Amd while they might not inflict such violence on their constituents - people from poorer countries have no such luck.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
lnxg33k1 5y ago
If your idea of west is US, and think that it should be your target as a society, i think you're better as Tunisia
naeeqn 5y ago
You do not want to use the US as your role model.

by caslon 5y ago

sockaddr 5y ago

This is either erroneous thinking or intentionally misleading. Conflating "outlasting" with "safe" is problem number 1. Problem number two is they said "any western country" and you picked one pretty far down the list. Many western countries have a life expectancy well into the 80's so your citation only works against their argument.

chakhs 5y ago
it's clear that OP meant that there are no major differences in safety between Tunisia and a random western country. Meaning you don't have to worry about getting robbed or whatever more than you would in say, England. People don't speak with exactitude, it would be weird.

Zababa 5y ago

And in France it's 82.7 years, the wealth of the US doesn't directly translate to good life expectancy, especially when you've got so many inequalities. The highest life expectancy is at 85 years in Japan. The average life exepctancy in the world in 72.6 years, 79 in Europe, 82.5 in Western Europe. With all due respect to Tunisia, it's better than average but still lower than "any western country".

8note 5y ago
The wealth of the US comes from a few people being extraordinarily wealthy. The p20 of wealth isn't great in the US
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
refurb 5y ago
Countries also count deaths differently. Some will count a premature baby at 26 weeks that dies as a death (the US), while others just say “it was never viable” so not a death. Don’t need to average very many “zeros” to bring down an average.
- derriz 5y ago
  That sounds wrong. There’s a whole range of life expectancy metrics that are calculated carefully as they constitute a fundamental metric about a population in everything from the insurance industry to the health industry. Life expectancy metrics are heavily used for geographic and historic comparison as they have standard and specific definition. The starting age is always specified - e.g. life expectancy at 18 or 60 or whatever. When the age is not specified, the implied age is zero or “life expectancy at birth”. I’ve never heard of “life expectancy at conception” nor can think that one country would calculate it but use the value for “life expectancy at birth”.
  - refurb 5y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_mortality https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_mortality There is huge variability in how deaths are reported for newborns. “Many countries, however, including certain European states (e.g. France) and Japan, only count as live births cases where an infant breathes at birth, which makes their reported IMR numbers somewhat lower and increases their rates of perinatal mortality.[111] In the Czech Republic and Bulgaria, for instance, requirements for live birth are even higher.”
    - derriz 5y ago
      Variances in how countries calculate IMR don't affect the calculation of life expectancy at birth which is a standardised measure - see https://www.who.int/whosis/whostat2006DefinitionsAndMetadata.pdf https://www.who.int/whosis/whostat2006DefinitionsAndMetadata...
      - refurb 5y ago
JPLeRouzic 5y ago
> And in France it's 82.7 years It depends on your occupation (and probably on other factors too). https://www.niussp.org/education-work-economy/france-male-managers-live-six-years-longer-male-manual-workersen-france-un-cadre-vit-six-ans-de-plus-quun-ouvrier/ https://www.niussp.org/education-work-economy/france-male-ma...
- Zababa 5y ago
  Yes, that's how averages work.

aaomidi 5y ago

We're not talking averages here though are we? Generally dictatorships are *fine* if you don't get political.

vagrantJin 5y ago
Thank you for pointing this out. The bad thing about Dictatorships is not the lack of freedom, it's the balancing act of resources and freedom. Wealthy dictatorships really are as chill as any rich democracy as long as you don't start poking the leadership with political ideas that don't benefit them. However, a lack of resources in Democracy or dictatorship will 100% result in civil unrest. Which is interesting because people always adapt to whatever situation they are in. I recall this lady being interviewed on Al Jezeera near the bombardment zone in the Gaza strip a few months ago. She was frustrated about little things like kids not going to school, a bus route being destroyed and what not. Nowhere in her statement did she mention that she and her family just had missles landing a few hundred meters away in the dead of night. Humans are interesting.
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  "Wealthy dictatorships really are as chill as any rich democracy as long as you don't start poking the leadership with political ideas that don't benefit them." Unless of course you are in the way of some of the powerclique and they decide to take over your buisness or land without compensation. Or the spoiled son the of the dictator (or the dictator himself) wants to bang your daughter or your wife. And maybe kills her while doing so. And anyone witnessing or complaining. That means officially also in a dictatorship no one does that. People just go missing or have accidents. Or found guilty of some other "crime". Exaggerating? Well, I just read a book about Trujillo, the former dictator of the dominican republic, it is quite interesting. But he did not invented power abuse. Anywhere where there is unchecked power, those things happen.
  - vagrantJin 5y ago
    And to your mind Bolivia is a thriving economic hub to warrant being a weathy dictatorship? Whatever the case may be, bad apples abound. Thats just human nature. Just because democratic leaders dont do things publicly, I think you should disabuse yourself of the notion that they are incapable of depraved acts of violence. Sexual or otherwise. Amd while they might not inflict such violence on their constituents - people from poorer countries have no such luck.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

lnxg33k1 5y ago

If your idea of west is US, and think that it should be your target as a society, i think you're better as Tunisia

naeeqn 5y ago

You do not want to use the US as your role model.